Most Americans support outlawing transgender surgeries, drugs for minors, poll finds

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[–]Alienhunter糞大名 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

I find it troubling that nearly 20% percent of voters think it should be legal.

[–]ClassroomPast6178 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Could also be a large proportion of people who don’t actually understand the issue or believe that hormones/puberty blockers are reversible and/or that children aren’t getting surgeries anyway.

Having just watched John Oliver and Jon Stewart on the issue, it’s hard to deny that there has been a, not inconsiderable, effort to confuse normies by muddying the water, acting like there’s a medical/scientific consensus in favour of transitioning children and that the idea that transgenderism is anything other than a completely naturally occurring and immutable characteristic, like homosexuality, is a vile, right wing libel.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Well there's a lot of money riding on it at least. I want to say I think most Americans aren't stupid enough to not know that biological sex is a thing, but I've met a few who seem to think that babies still come from Mr. Stork so go figure.

Stewart and Oliver do hit on a point that is correct, the republicans are capitalizing on this issue for campaign clout. Doesn't mean that they shouldn't capitalize on it, but we should be wary about how that effects narratives.

The way they argue this is they're like "look how small the problem is why do they care" and they're right it's not that common, yet. But this is the same argument that conservatives will go around and throw in opposition to things like more regulation of homeschooling. The edge cases of severe abuse do not constitute the majority of cases, but that shouldn't make them any less disturbing, nor should it mean we do nothing about it.

Even if it's only a very tiny percentage of kids that are getting transitioned that doesn't mean we can just pretend there isn't a problem. Just because I've never gotten into a car accident before doesn't mean I shouldn't wear my seatbelt.

[–]ClassroomPast6178 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Stewart and Oliver do hit on a point that is correct, the republicans are capitalizing on this issue for campaign clout. Doesn't mean that they shouldn't capitalize on it, but we should be wary about how that effects narratives.

Absolutely. But when right-wing American conservatives, who are even further to the right than the UK Tories, are agreeing with the latest NHS guidance (no puberty blockers, absolutely no surgery for under-18s, no social transition for children) we have to look closely at what is happening and wonder how the hell we have arrived at this point.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The latest NHS guidance is very sane, and back to what things were in the early 2000s.

I think what happened was basically what /r/Tumblrinaction started with. Bunch of stupid kids grew up with the internet and it warped their sense of reality "boomers" didn't see what was happening. Perpetual teenager mentality tumblrinas grew up and got positions of authority with emotional terrorism and internet burn style of debate, "boomers" didn't know how to handle it and didn't want to risk retirement, they enjoyed success for a time as the "boomers" continued to play by the old rules of not inciting "flame wars" aka acting civil (good idea but utterly useless against people who refuse to act civil) and it's only recently that enough people have wised up to it to quote the parlance "call them out on their shit".

I'll go with what I've always said, people have the right to self identify however they want, but I don't have the obligation to support or agree with them. I've got empathy with trans people and can understand the underlying psychological causes, but it's much like alcoholism, you aren't supposed to embrace and encourage it, will lead to a dark end and your own control over the situation is, limited, at best. Said as a fully aware hypocritical alcoholic. Cheers. Fuck you Brits for inventing the pub, also god bless you Brits for inventing the pub. To alcohol the cause and solution of all of life's problems.

[–]OuroborosTheory 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think another factor is the Millennials aging out (everyone's 30-40 now) and more able to look back on their youth, while Z/Alpha is still in the 17-22-yo wave--and the next generations aren't gonna stop, the HR and IT departments will make sure of that

but what was different was that being accused of "doing an -ism" was entirely new 2012-14, back even before the radfems lost their top position when they touched the transwoman third rail (unflamboyant gay men are still in exile when the radfems called them "doubly patriarchal" lol)

so now there's a cohort that went through all that undergrad drama and even holds similar positions, but is able to say "yeah I remember doing the same, but it was counterproductive to the cause": so Alphas will scream at the "obsolete" generation but secretly know deep down that it'll happen to them to, that they're going to become dentists

the Water Buffalo Incident's from 1993, but it didn't turn into a cycle of "yeah, but you're a Black MAN" becoming "yeah, but you're a Black CIS woman" becoming "yeah, but you're a Black trans woman attracted to MEN," etc.--not until Tumblr

it's moved on to TikTok now, but that's got such an unwieldy interface: Tumblr was such a delight by comparison, you could search pages and pages of fanart and it'd helpfully provide all their longwinded rants right next to them; TT's not as good at really conveying political messages as Tumblr even if the Race/Gender 101 and Oppression Olympics factors are the exact same, it's all on a scroll

[–]alladd 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

gay marraige was statistically a "small problem" too. doesn't matter. it's a fallacy to suggest that something clearly millions of people have an interest in or opinion on is actually not a big deal and should be undiscussed and unchallenged.

[–]handbananasrevenge 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, we’ve seen how they create “consensus” in the scientific community. By suppressing information and threatening people who don’t toe the line with loss of jobs or worse.

[–]IkeConn 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Old 80/20 Rule.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Probably right. Maybe I shouldn't be so shocked that 20% of Americans are idiots.

[–]fuck_redditThou/Thee/Thy 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Almost every poll that asks stupid questions (does chocolate milk come from brown cows? Is socialism the same thing as socializing?) gets 15-20% who give the stupid answer.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

To be fair I usually answer polls maliciously.