Wrote this comment in r/punk that will almost certainly deleted, would appreciate some thoughts

submitted by RuinedSpiral from (self.TumblrInAction)

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[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I can't say I know shit all about punk. I see it as a counter cultural fashion trend and those always end up attracting a bunch of otherwise borderline crazy people who will start drama especially towards anyone they perceive as adopting cultural norms. Without question they'll turn into toxic places cause the only people who have the time and energy to devote towards it full time are the people who are otherwise NEETs.

If it's just a fashion and asthetics thing it's great, but once you try to make it an identity it is doomed.

Frankly I think Enby is the new Punk/Goth/Emo/Hipster whatever counter cultural youth movement. Except they have corporate support now so they are just posers. Tradcaths will take their crown and the new subversive counter culture.

[–]RuinedSpiral[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I see where you’re coming from with enby being the new goth or whatever, but as someone who has seen a lot involved with that type of counterculture, it really is not. Being punk or goth or hipster never demanded nearly as much from people as this trans stuff does. It’s so much more damaging.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've not seen a lot of it so I can't say. I agree the all encompassing identify stuff is way more cult like and the corporate medical intrusions into these spheres makes it much worse than simply a fashion movement. But at it's core I think it's similar. People want to reject certain social norms and do their own thing.

Like if it was just literally a case of "I want to dress more androgynous" I wouldn't care, I doubt most anyone would. But even with those you've always had the far edge cases of the extreme body modification people. I think it's similar to a drug addiction. People have self image problems and if it's just a case of changing how you dress to be happy no harm no foul. Clothes aren't permanent. Tattooing your eyeballs black and getting your tongue forked is. And there is pretty good reason why you don't wanna let kids make those decisions.

With adults it's much harder, I think it's a bad idea to do so and would argue against it but I believe adults should be free to make their own decisions even when those decisions might cause them problems down the line so long as they are entering into such decisions with a sound mind.

[–]INeedSomeTime 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can speak from a perspective of metal community. All it took you to be a fellow metalhead was sharing the love for metal music and then you just bought metal band's merchandise from official places or rip offs if you were too broke. You grew out hair and wore military boots. You attended metal concerts. You never expected from people to treat you any different. Only maybe your parents were annoying by complaining about your long hair. Meanwhile as enby you immediately demand from everyone to bend over, think 24/7 about your pronouns, making sure everyone refers to you as you want, you become a center of their attention since you said how dead naming and misgendering can literally hurt you, so whenever you have to be mentioned in 3rd person your friends wonder what pronouns to use and make sure not to slip up.

[–]RuinedSpiral[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah see my experience in punk was much the same as yours in metal aside from the fact that it was always a little more explicitly political. My point is it didn’t demand all of this shit from people outside of it. I think there’s also an important distinction made that these subcultures tend to revolve around music, while the whole gender thing seems much more like a political party or a religion. There’s no art there.