LGBS just went down

submitted by 79malibu350 from self.SuperStraight

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

For what it's worth: to someone seeing these discussions for the first time, 'superstraight' appears to be an example of trying too hard to be straight. Why bother talking about being straight? (Genuine question; don't take it personally.) To my knowledge, people who are actually 'straight' would never think of doing this.

[–][deleted] 25 insightful - 3 fun25 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 3 fun -  (16 children)

Transwomen want to be considered real women, and they get mad that while people are willing to play the gender pretend game, lesbians and straight guys don't want to have sex with them because they aren't biological women.

Which ya know would be one of those "so sad, too bad" things except people are slinging around the transphobia label over this, and people are sick of being called transphobic, threatened and harassed over their own sexual orientation.

Apparently lesbians have been dealing with this for years. They don't want "girldick" because they're lesbians. Telling a lesbian she should learn to love cock for trans individuals is pretty fucked up.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

Thanks. This helps, but if 'superstraight' is an alternative word for 'transphobic' or a similar term, it would seem that these words are still unnecessary. If intersex or trans-people or LGBTQ+ people want to engage with straight people, they merely have to ask. There's no need for special names or questions about identity. This decision or choice would depend entirely on the two (or more) people. One's sexual orientation is of course only their private concern, and discussed only if they feel like discussing it. So if straight people don't want to have sext with intersex people, I am sure this is easy to avoid, without discussing it at length online. And the same would be true of intersex people and who they want to have sex with. But perhaps I am missing other motivations at play here. Perhaps people want to enjoy exploring ideas about different kinds of sexuality online, without consideration of the abusive language they are using - a kind of virtual S&M, so to speak. Seems to be an unfulfilling substitute for physical relationships, however.

[–]FediNetizen 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Superstraight isn't an alternative to "transphobic". What made it blow up was that in describing it as a "new" class of sexuality, they fall under the LGBT+ umbrella. Denying the validity of a super's sexuality is superphobic, in the same way denying that people are really gay is homophobic.

In super parlance, straight = attracted to women and trans women, super straight = attracted only to women. Gay = attracted to men and trans men, and Super Gay = attracted only to men. In describing their sexuality in this way (acknowledging people as still straight or gay if they're attracted to trans people), you are also giving trans activists what they said they wanted: classification as the men or women they say they are. But you are also asserting your sexuality in the process.

Trans nuts that try to shame and marginalize supers and question the validity of their sexuality are being just as intolerant as the transphobes they complain about. While the movement was satirical in origin, they're actually entirely serious about what they're saying. "I acknowledge trans people as the gender they identify as, but I'm still not attracted to them".

[–]jet199 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

Socks is a troll. Just laugh and move on.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Jet, that's the two most liberal people on saidit disagreeing. 🍿

[–]jet199 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

He's not liberal. He's just authoritarian in a way as it's fashionable for his class.

[–]FediNetizen 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I identify as a liberal, and not respecting my identity is hate speech and a one way ticket to gulag.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You're a meanie

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Time to block him too

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Thanks. This clarifies the answer. I think many who are "straight" are not sexually attracted to intersex people, OR wouldn't know if they're sexually attracted to intersex people, OR they are occasionally attracted to intersex people, OR they'd rather not give it much thought, OR they prefer intersex horses, OR intersex cats. I suppose I'll get used to this language, but at first sight I have to admit that it's a categorization process that even Aristotle would disagree with (and he loved categories of this kind). The problem is that people are complex, they change, and they cannot assume that language determines identity, any more than one can legislate personal identity. Seems it would make for a reasonable Sci-fi movie with Ethan Hawke. (To choose a language that you believe identifies you makes sense; however the imposition of a language onto others that puts them in a linguistic, categorical straightjacket doesn't make sense.)

[–]FediNetizen 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Intersex is not the same thing as trans, but I can't understand why you would get the two confused, because the trans lobby has been trying to conflate the two for a few years now. Intersex people are people with DSDs, or other genetic disorders that lead to the appearance of traits more typically associated with the opposite sex. But none of those apply to trans people, who are (unless they happen to also be intersex) born very clearly as one sex or the other.

Most people, if you explained to them what a super was, would identify themselves as a super if then asked. I don't think most people are aware that the trans lobby is claiming that being a straight guy means you're supposed to be attracted to trans women, unless you are transphobic. I don't think that they're aware that the trans lobby claims that a lesbian who says they wouldn't date anyone with a penis is being transphobic. Yet that's our reality.

The super movement is just a response to that. It's trying to not invalidate trans people, while also putting our foot down and declaring that even if we're the majority, our sexuality is not shameful and not up for discussion.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Thanks. I kwow someone who is transitioning to a man, and he told me that trans was disrespectful. Perhaps this is one of the linguistic differences between the UK - where he/they are - and the US, where this other terminology is used. I was told to use 'intersex' and I found glossaries online that noted this. (Is there a better glossary for this?) I can appreciate the differences you mention, between intersex and trans. I work regularly with large groups of people, some of whom want me to know these terms, and thus I've met trans and intersex people over the years. But because I appreciate this is a private matter, I've not asked them: "so what is it like to be you?" or similar. Thus I have to study the glossaries, and ask my extended family friend, who is transitioning to a man. He admits he is making huge sacrifices to do this, but it's very good to see that he's very happy with his approaches, and is very comfortable, after many years of feeling very awkward. And I've known this person since birth. In any event - what I am learning about this 'super' movement is that it appears to be mainly a use of language - a term in this case - that essential means: I proclaim that I am anti-trans. There is no logic to the assumption that 'straight' people "ought to be attracted" only other straight people, or only straight and trans people, or only something else. It seems ridiculous to me. People are much more complex than this, and they change (over time or in an instant), and most of us don't give this identity much thought. So what's really at issue? The anti-trans proclemation, seems to me, and in agreement with your comments.

[–]Comatoast 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I don't think that the movement is as black and white as everyone just immediately being transphobic, but I can see where it would look that way. There's a lot of outright aggression out there, likely because when people have been lidded for too long, they tend to pop and say a lot of things that come from the hatred of feeling silenced.

Many transmen that I've seen have pretty convincing transitions. There have been several that are subjectively very attractive even, and I can't tell the difference once they've started working out. With transwomen, there's a lot more subversive behavior within the group-- and looking at just casual conversations between them, a LOT of mental illness that errs on the side of cluster B. There also appears to be a higher rate of autism, which can be offputting (I didn't come prepared with sources, so I'm ready for your newspaper swat). A lot of them end up looking like menopausal wraiths with unfortunate hairlines and attitudes of epic narcissism/entitlement, and that heavily impacts physical attraction for men or women that would have dated them otherwise. I'm digressing here, but my point is that I don't think it's a fear of transgenderism in itself for most folks, but more a repulsion of the behaviors that come from far too many of the TW within the community with very male, very rapey tactics.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes - I think this makes sense - it would seem that the majority appear to be judgemental of trans-people because of repulsion or some other general form of dislike. And this might show their unfamilarity with trans people.

I have had almost no access to any of these people - the trans individuals and those who don't like them. I meet perhaps one trans person per year, and perhaps have met others but didn't know it.

And of course anyone facing a rapey person is justafiably quite upset.

[–]FediNetizen 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You're half right about the aggressive behavior, autism, and cluster B stuff. It's just that it's not all TW; it's a specific type of TW.

Most TW match one of two typologies: autogynephiles (AGPs), or homosexual transsexuals (HSTSs). Some of them have a mix of traits, but the majority fit pretty cleanly within one of the two.

HSTSs are more the classic transsexual that you were aware of 20 years ago. They were typically very effeminate during adolescence, are attracted to men, typically transition at a young age (before 25), often get "the surgery" and feel very dysphoric about their penis, etc.

AGPs are starting to dominate the trans landscape, and are in a lot of ways the opposite. They were usually straight before transitioning, didn't show a lot of signs of femininity in adolescence, usually have male-typical hobbies and come from male-dominated career fields (such as STEM, the military, etc.) It's this group that will identify as "lesbian" after transition, and this group who has higher rates of autism, cluster B disorders, etc.

And what's crucial is to understand that due to the very nature of autogynephilia, identifying them as men is highly "disruptive". This is where the aggression and illogical behavior originates. Here's a quote from Alice Dreger's book "Galileo's Middle Finger" that describes it -

There’s a critical difference between autogynephilia and most other sexual orientations: Most other orientations aren’t erotically disrupted simply by being labeled. When you call a typical gay man homosexual, you’re not disturbing his sexual hopes and desires. By contrast, autogynephilia is perhaps best understood as a love that would really rather we didn’t speak its name. The ultimate eroticism of autogynephilia lies in the idea of really becoming or being a woman, not in being a natal male who desires to be a woman.

I highly recommend this article to understand how AGPs are different from the "classic transsexual" that used to be associated with LGBT, and how their agenda is causing strife within the community. I can also recommend this interview with the psychologist that actually coined the term if you want to learn more about what AGP actually is.

[–]Comatoast 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I try to keep my language from insisting that it's an every case scenario because that dismisses outliers. I hate being included in insulting blanket statements that don't apply to me, so I try my best to make sure that what I say doesn't do that. Sometimes it's worded in a way where you couldn't really tell, so I'll work on that.