LGBS just went down

submitted by 79malibu350 from self.SuperStraight

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[–]FediNetizen 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Intersex is not the same thing as trans, but I can't understand why you would get the two confused, because the trans lobby has been trying to conflate the two for a few years now. Intersex people are people with DSDs, or other genetic disorders that lead to the appearance of traits more typically associated with the opposite sex. But none of those apply to trans people, who are (unless they happen to also be intersex) born very clearly as one sex or the other.

Most people, if you explained to them what a super was, would identify themselves as a super if then asked. I don't think most people are aware that the trans lobby is claiming that being a straight guy means you're supposed to be attracted to trans women, unless you are transphobic. I don't think that they're aware that the trans lobby claims that a lesbian who says they wouldn't date anyone with a penis is being transphobic. Yet that's our reality.

The super movement is just a response to that. It's trying to not invalidate trans people, while also putting our foot down and declaring that even if we're the majority, our sexuality is not shameful and not up for discussion.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Thanks. I kwow someone who is transitioning to a man, and he told me that trans was disrespectful. Perhaps this is one of the linguistic differences between the UK - where he/they are - and the US, where this other terminology is used. I was told to use 'intersex' and I found glossaries online that noted this. (Is there a better glossary for this?) I can appreciate the differences you mention, between intersex and trans. I work regularly with large groups of people, some of whom want me to know these terms, and thus I've met trans and intersex people over the years. But because I appreciate this is a private matter, I've not asked them: "so what is it like to be you?" or similar. Thus I have to study the glossaries, and ask my extended family friend, who is transitioning to a man. He admits he is making huge sacrifices to do this, but it's very good to see that he's very happy with his approaches, and is very comfortable, after many years of feeling very awkward. And I've known this person since birth. In any event - what I am learning about this 'super' movement is that it appears to be mainly a use of language - a term in this case - that essential means: I proclaim that I am anti-trans. There is no logic to the assumption that 'straight' people "ought to be attracted" only other straight people, or only straight and trans people, or only something else. It seems ridiculous to me. People are much more complex than this, and they change (over time or in an instant), and most of us don't give this identity much thought. So what's really at issue? The anti-trans proclemation, seems to me, and in agreement with your comments.

[–]Comatoast 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I don't think that the movement is as black and white as everyone just immediately being transphobic, but I can see where it would look that way. There's a lot of outright aggression out there, likely because when people have been lidded for too long, they tend to pop and say a lot of things that come from the hatred of feeling silenced.

Many transmen that I've seen have pretty convincing transitions. There have been several that are subjectively very attractive even, and I can't tell the difference once they've started working out. With transwomen, there's a lot more subversive behavior within the group-- and looking at just casual conversations between them, a LOT of mental illness that errs on the side of cluster B. There also appears to be a higher rate of autism, which can be offputting (I didn't come prepared with sources, so I'm ready for your newspaper swat). A lot of them end up looking like menopausal wraiths with unfortunate hairlines and attitudes of epic narcissism/entitlement, and that heavily impacts physical attraction for men or women that would have dated them otherwise. I'm digressing here, but my point is that I don't think it's a fear of transgenderism in itself for most folks, but more a repulsion of the behaviors that come from far too many of the TW within the community with very male, very rapey tactics.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes - I think this makes sense - it would seem that the majority appear to be judgemental of trans-people because of repulsion or some other general form of dislike. And this might show their unfamilarity with trans people.

I have had almost no access to any of these people - the trans individuals and those who don't like them. I meet perhaps one trans person per year, and perhaps have met others but didn't know it.

And of course anyone facing a rapey person is justafiably quite upset.

[–]FediNetizen 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You're half right about the aggressive behavior, autism, and cluster B stuff. It's just that it's not all TW; it's a specific type of TW.

Most TW match one of two typologies: autogynephiles (AGPs), or homosexual transsexuals (HSTSs). Some of them have a mix of traits, but the majority fit pretty cleanly within one of the two.

HSTSs are more the classic transsexual that you were aware of 20 years ago. They were typically very effeminate during adolescence, are attracted to men, typically transition at a young age (before 25), often get "the surgery" and feel very dysphoric about their penis, etc.

AGPs are starting to dominate the trans landscape, and are in a lot of ways the opposite. They were usually straight before transitioning, didn't show a lot of signs of femininity in adolescence, usually have male-typical hobbies and come from male-dominated career fields (such as STEM, the military, etc.) It's this group that will identify as "lesbian" after transition, and this group who has higher rates of autism, cluster B disorders, etc.

And what's crucial is to understand that due to the very nature of autogynephilia, identifying them as men is highly "disruptive". This is where the aggression and illogical behavior originates. Here's a quote from Alice Dreger's book "Galileo's Middle Finger" that describes it -

There’s a critical difference between autogynephilia and most other sexual orientations: Most other orientations aren’t erotically disrupted simply by being labeled. When you call a typical gay man homosexual, you’re not disturbing his sexual hopes and desires. By contrast, autogynephilia is perhaps best understood as a love that would really rather we didn’t speak its name. The ultimate eroticism of autogynephilia lies in the idea of really becoming or being a woman, not in being a natal male who desires to be a woman.

I highly recommend this article to understand how AGPs are different from the "classic transsexual" that used to be associated with LGBT, and how their agenda is causing strife within the community. I can also recommend this interview with the psychologist that actually coined the term if you want to learn more about what AGP actually is.

[–]Comatoast 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I try to keep my language from insisting that it's an every case scenario because that dismisses outliers. I hate being included in insulting blanket statements that don't apply to me, so I try my best to make sure that what I say doesn't do that. Sometimes it's worded in a way where you couldn't really tell, so I'll work on that.

[–]FediNetizen 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Meh, you were mostly right. The TW's that dominate the media landscape right now are largely AGPs, so your statement mostly holds. No need to apologize for not explicitly stating that your statement doesn't apply to everybody.