LGBS just went down

submitted by 79malibu350 from self.SuperStraight

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–][deleted] 25 insightful - 3 fun25 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 3 fun -  (40 children)

Transwomen want to be considered real women, and they get mad that while people are willing to play the gender pretend game, lesbians and straight guys don't want to have sex with them because they aren't biological women.

Which ya know would be one of those "so sad, too bad" things except people are slinging around the transphobia label over this, and people are sick of being called transphobic, threatened and harassed over their own sexual orientation.

Apparently lesbians have been dealing with this for years. They don't want "girldick" because they're lesbians. Telling a lesbian she should learn to love cock for trans individuals is pretty fucked up.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (39 children)

Thanks. This helps, but if 'superstraight' is an alternative word for 'transphobic' or a similar term, it would seem that these words are still unnecessary. If intersex or trans-people or LGBTQ+ people want to engage with straight people, they merely have to ask. There's no need for special names or questions about identity. This decision or choice would depend entirely on the two (or more) people. One's sexual orientation is of course only their private concern, and discussed only if they feel like discussing it. So if straight people don't want to have sext with intersex people, I am sure this is easy to avoid, without discussing it at length online. And the same would be true of intersex people and who they want to have sex with. But perhaps I am missing other motivations at play here. Perhaps people want to enjoy exploring ideas about different kinds of sexuality online, without consideration of the abusive language they are using - a kind of virtual S&M, so to speak. Seems to be an unfulfilling substitute for physical relationships, however.

[–][deleted] 22 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

The core problem is trans advocates saying not being attracted to trans people is phobic. And any criticism is transphobic. They have a bully pulpit.

By making Superstraight a new gender identity for those who only want to have sex with people they're attracted to, it turns the tables. It frames the discussion in a new light. If this is a valid gender identity then who are transgender advocacy groups to call it "transphobic," and if it's not a valid gender identity, then who decides which gender identities are valid. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

It's a really weird situation to even need something like this, but this gender identity crap has gotten out of hand and people are sick of having to cater to it. And the only reason trans people care is cause they wanna get laid, it's a lot like incels.

[–]FediNetizen 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

it's a lot like incels.

Lol, not sure how much time you've spent in Gender Critical circles, but they have a name for these "lesbians" that rage post online about how lesbians not wanting their dick is transphobic: trancels.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

trancels

I've just been learning about that. I had no idea lesbians were putting up with this shit. Kinda sad nobody cared until it became an issue for men.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

The TERF label that the trancels put on us all but insured that. The woke left won't want to listen to anyone called transphobic and most right wingers want nothing to do with radical feminists.

It didn't matter that most of these lesbians weren't transphobic or radical feminists, they just didn't want to deal with girldick bullshit. The moment that name was branded on us we were essentially pariahs to all sides of the discussion.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

radical feminists

Maybe it's because of all this, driving normal folk to them, but the "radical" feminists seemed not so radical to me. When I think a true radical feminist I think manhater. And some are, and I don't blame men for not wanting to be around that.

Or is it just an alliance of convenience, the enemy of my enemy.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The TRAs chased a bunch of women into Radical Feminism with their attacks on women's rights and especially a lot of lesbians end up there. Women who otherwise wouldn't be in the radical feminist camp. TRAs are the greatest recruiters for radical feminism.

I don't agree with radical feminists on some things, but I 100% agree with them on the gender ideology.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Some radfems hate men that is true but not all of them. The "radical" part refers to the old meaning of the word radical, relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something, because it's an older movement. So the radical refers to that they see women's biology as the root of women's oppression.

So the gender ideology of men can be women, to them is insulting as men (the oppressor) are identifying into their oppression.

Kind of like a white man in the US identifying as a black man , start behaving like an awful stereotype of how black men (ghetto speak, gang signs) are and complains about being oppressed as a black man.

It's incredibly insulting to them. And frankly with that i agree.

[–]FediNetizen 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Kinda sad nobody cared until it became an issue for men.

Actual lesbians were ahead of the curve on this, because they were the first to have to deal with these waves of new "lesbians" demanding access to their spaces. The reason it was a new thing, even though transsexuals have been around forever, is that there is more than one "type" of transsexual: autogynephiles (AGPs), and homosexual transsexuals (HSTSs).

Historically it was the HSTSs that were a part of the LGBT rights movement, but now that there is mainstream acceptance the community is becoming dominated by the AGPs. The whole AGP typology is interesting and might explain a lot if you happen to have any trans "lesbians" in your social circle. I recommend reading this excellent article "The Elephant in the Room" that explains how AGPs are causing strife within the LGBT community.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Cheers.

(Still seems transphobic :-)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Airbus, get him! Lol

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I blocked him today, it's the only person I blocked

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

How dare yo summon /u/Airbus320

lol

[–]FediNetizen 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Superstraight isn't an alternative to "transphobic". What made it blow up was that in describing it as a "new" class of sexuality, they fall under the LGBT+ umbrella. Denying the validity of a super's sexuality is superphobic, in the same way denying that people are really gay is homophobic.

In super parlance, straight = attracted to women and trans women, super straight = attracted only to women. Gay = attracted to men and trans men, and Super Gay = attracted only to men. In describing their sexuality in this way (acknowledging people as still straight or gay if they're attracted to trans people), you are also giving trans activists what they said they wanted: classification as the men or women they say they are. But you are also asserting your sexuality in the process.

Trans nuts that try to shame and marginalize supers and question the validity of their sexuality are being just as intolerant as the transphobes they complain about. While the movement was satirical in origin, they're actually entirely serious about what they're saying. "I acknowledge trans people as the gender they identify as, but I'm still not attracted to them".

[–]jet199 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

Socks is a troll. Just laugh and move on.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Jet, that's the two most liberal people on saidit disagreeing. 🍿

[–]jet199 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

He's not liberal. He's just authoritarian in a way as it's fashionable for his class.

[–]FediNetizen 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I identify as a liberal, and not respecting my identity is hate speech and a one way ticket to gulag.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You're a meanie

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Time to block him too

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Thanks. This clarifies the answer. I think many who are "straight" are not sexually attracted to intersex people, OR wouldn't know if they're sexually attracted to intersex people, OR they are occasionally attracted to intersex people, OR they'd rather not give it much thought, OR they prefer intersex horses, OR intersex cats. I suppose I'll get used to this language, but at first sight I have to admit that it's a categorization process that even Aristotle would disagree with (and he loved categories of this kind). The problem is that people are complex, they change, and they cannot assume that language determines identity, any more than one can legislate personal identity. Seems it would make for a reasonable Sci-fi movie with Ethan Hawke. (To choose a language that you believe identifies you makes sense; however the imposition of a language onto others that puts them in a linguistic, categorical straightjacket doesn't make sense.)

[–]FediNetizen 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Intersex is not the same thing as trans, but I can't understand why you would get the two confused, because the trans lobby has been trying to conflate the two for a few years now. Intersex people are people with DSDs, or other genetic disorders that lead to the appearance of traits more typically associated with the opposite sex. But none of those apply to trans people, who are (unless they happen to also be intersex) born very clearly as one sex or the other.

Most people, if you explained to them what a super was, would identify themselves as a super if then asked. I don't think most people are aware that the trans lobby is claiming that being a straight guy means you're supposed to be attracted to trans women, unless you are transphobic. I don't think that they're aware that the trans lobby claims that a lesbian who says they wouldn't date anyone with a penis is being transphobic. Yet that's our reality.

The super movement is just a response to that. It's trying to not invalidate trans people, while also putting our foot down and declaring that even if we're the majority, our sexuality is not shameful and not up for discussion.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Thanks. I kwow someone who is transitioning to a man, and he told me that trans was disrespectful. Perhaps this is one of the linguistic differences between the UK - where he/they are - and the US, where this other terminology is used. I was told to use 'intersex' and I found glossaries online that noted this. (Is there a better glossary for this?) I can appreciate the differences you mention, between intersex and trans. I work regularly with large groups of people, some of whom want me to know these terms, and thus I've met trans and intersex people over the years. But because I appreciate this is a private matter, I've not asked them: "so what is it like to be you?" or similar. Thus I have to study the glossaries, and ask my extended family friend, who is transitioning to a man. He admits he is making huge sacrifices to do this, but it's very good to see that he's very happy with his approaches, and is very comfortable, after many years of feeling very awkward. And I've known this person since birth. In any event - what I am learning about this 'super' movement is that it appears to be mainly a use of language - a term in this case - that essential means: I proclaim that I am anti-trans. There is no logic to the assumption that 'straight' people "ought to be attracted" only other straight people, or only straight and trans people, or only something else. It seems ridiculous to me. People are much more complex than this, and they change (over time or in an instant), and most of us don't give this identity much thought. So what's really at issue? The anti-trans proclemation, seems to me, and in agreement with your comments.

[–]Comatoast 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I don't think that the movement is as black and white as everyone just immediately being transphobic, but I can see where it would look that way. There's a lot of outright aggression out there, likely because when people have been lidded for too long, they tend to pop and say a lot of things that come from the hatred of feeling silenced.

Many transmen that I've seen have pretty convincing transitions. There have been several that are subjectively very attractive even, and I can't tell the difference once they've started working out. With transwomen, there's a lot more subversive behavior within the group-- and looking at just casual conversations between them, a LOT of mental illness that errs on the side of cluster B. There also appears to be a higher rate of autism, which can be offputting (I didn't come prepared with sources, so I'm ready for your newspaper swat). A lot of them end up looking like menopausal wraiths with unfortunate hairlines and attitudes of epic narcissism/entitlement, and that heavily impacts physical attraction for men or women that would have dated them otherwise. I'm digressing here, but my point is that I don't think it's a fear of transgenderism in itself for most folks, but more a repulsion of the behaviors that come from far too many of the TW within the community with very male, very rapey tactics.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes - I think this makes sense - it would seem that the majority appear to be judgemental of trans-people because of repulsion or some other general form of dislike. And this might show their unfamilarity with trans people.

I have had almost no access to any of these people - the trans individuals and those who don't like them. I meet perhaps one trans person per year, and perhaps have met others but didn't know it.

And of course anyone facing a rapey person is justafiably quite upset.

[–]FediNetizen 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You're half right about the aggressive behavior, autism, and cluster B stuff. It's just that it's not all TW; it's a specific type of TW.

Most TW match one of two typologies: autogynephiles (AGPs), or homosexual transsexuals (HSTSs). Some of them have a mix of traits, but the majority fit pretty cleanly within one of the two.

HSTSs are more the classic transsexual that you were aware of 20 years ago. They were typically very effeminate during adolescence, are attracted to men, typically transition at a young age (before 25), often get "the surgery" and feel very dysphoric about their penis, etc.

AGPs are starting to dominate the trans landscape, and are in a lot of ways the opposite. They were usually straight before transitioning, didn't show a lot of signs of femininity in adolescence, usually have male-typical hobbies and come from male-dominated career fields (such as STEM, the military, etc.) It's this group that will identify as "lesbian" after transition, and this group who has higher rates of autism, cluster B disorders, etc.

And what's crucial is to understand that due to the very nature of autogynephilia, identifying them as men is highly "disruptive". This is where the aggression and illogical behavior originates. Here's a quote from Alice Dreger's book "Galileo's Middle Finger" that describes it -

There’s a critical difference between autogynephilia and most other sexual orientations: Most other orientations aren’t erotically disrupted simply by being labeled. When you call a typical gay man homosexual, you’re not disturbing his sexual hopes and desires. By contrast, autogynephilia is perhaps best understood as a love that would really rather we didn’t speak its name. The ultimate eroticism of autogynephilia lies in the idea of really becoming or being a woman, not in being a natal male who desires to be a woman.

I highly recommend this article to understand how AGPs are different from the "classic transsexual" that used to be associated with LGBT, and how their agenda is causing strife within the community. I can also recommend this interview with the psychologist that actually coined the term if you want to learn more about what AGP actually is.

[–]Comatoast 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I try to keep my language from insisting that it's an every case scenario because that dismisses outliers. I hate being included in insulting blanket statements that don't apply to me, so I try my best to make sure that what I say doesn't do that. Sometimes it's worded in a way where you couldn't really tell, so I'll work on that.

[–]FediNetizen 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Meh, you were mostly right. The TW's that dominate the media landscape right now are largely AGPs, so your statement mostly holds. No need to apologize for not explicitly stating that your statement doesn't apply to everybody.

[–]Comatoast 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It seems like it would be simple enough, adults doing adult things, right? Evidently there's a lot of untrustworthy behavior going on behind the scenes, a lot of being dishonest and a gauge of that personal dishonesty that doesn't match up with the people that are being pursued.

We should be able to clearly express who/what we are or aren't attracted to without any problems.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Coma toast can't consent to being buttered.

Sorry, that seems really funny to me after a few beers.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Indeed - the freedom to choose a language that you believe identifies you makes sense; however the imposition of a language onto others that puts them in a linguistic straightjacket doesn't make sense.

[–]79malibu350[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I wish it was that easy. It should be that easy. But like has been pointed out, not even lesbians gays and bisexuals have been spared from “transphobia” over this. Super straight was a joke, a shot fired back at the woke nonsense. But it seems it’s become something else because so many people of so many sexual orientations are tired of having these accusations lobbed at them from the same people that invented the term “skoliosexual”. Which by the way, seems inherently cisphobic by their own logic. So here we are.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting. I had no idea. Cheers.

[–]fuckupaddams 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It kind of started as a joke by a 16 year old on tiktok saying "so if I'm straight I should be into trans women? Fine then I'm not straight I'm SUPER straight" and from there it became a way to actually talk about these bigger issues regarding the trans movement.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Very interesting, that this term originates from an assumption of what one "ought to do". There is a sub-discipline in Ethics that deals with concepts of what we "ought to do". I hope the urbandictionary.com or similar will keep track of this etymological information. Teenager logic - to proclaim one's anti-transness - seems to be taking over here, like in the movie 'Idiocracy'. Soon we'll be talking like this:

Doctor: Well, don't want to sound like a dick or nothin', but, ah... it says on your chart that you're fucked up. Ah, you talk like a fag, and your shit's all retarded. What I'd do, is just like... like... you know, like, you know what I mean, like...

Doctor : Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. My first wife was 'tarded. She's a pilot now.

Doctor : Why come you got no tattoo?

Only on Saidit have I been referred to with some of these words.

[–]Comatoast 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Scrote is one of the greatest shitnames for men, and you couldn't convince me otherwise.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I should be honored (as a 'scrote' on Saidit).

[–]fuckupaddams 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sorry you lost me bud.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The quotes are from the movie, Idiocracy.

My main point is that this new term seems to be mainly a proclemation about one's anti-transness, and thus a name-calling exercise aimed at intersex people, rather than an identifyer of a straight person who would not date an intersex person. But what do I know.

[–]fuckupaddams 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What do intersex people have to do with it?