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[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

In terms of prison, it is well-known that punitive prison systems (those which are designed with punishment as the main focus instead of rehabilitation) act to simply turn regular folks into hardened criminals. The harsher the prison, the harder the criminals become.

There is no evidence that soft prisons work better. Prison is a deterrent.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

There is no evidence that soft prisons work better. Prison is a deterrent.

And Jan 6 was an insurrection, the Covid vaccines are safe and effective, and a man can turn into a woman by putting on a dress and makeup.

There is a ton of evidence from Finland that "soft" (your word, not mine) prisons work better. They switched over from the harsh, punitive, Russian-style prison system that emphasised punishment and didn't even know the word "rehabilitation" to a more enlightened, rehabilitation-based system in the 1970s, and never looked back. Recidivism rates dropped enormously, prison costs fell, and crime rates fell.

The majority of prisoners in Finland are kept in low-security open prisons, including murderers considered to be at low risk of reoffending.

In Norway, recidivism rates fell from 60-70% (typical for punitive-style prisons) to just 20% after introducing a similar system.

In terms of deterrent, there is plenty of evidence that the threat of punishment is not an effective deterrent. What really deters people is the consideration that they will be caught. People who think they won't be caught are not deterred by the threat of punishment, no matter how harsh. (Well duh.)

There is a ton of research which shows that imprisonment has, at best, no effect on the rate of re-offending and often results in increased recidivism. Imprisonment for some crimes may be necessary for the safety of the community, but it's not going to rehabilitate criminals or deter people from committing crimes, and it often pushes people into a cycle of crime and prison.

Harsher prison sentences don't deter crimes. If they did, the jails of 18th century Britain, or of Tzarist and Soviet Russia, would have been empty.

Most crimes are not carefully thought-out, rational calculations that balance the potential gain versus the potential punishment. The average crackhead is not making rational calculations about cost and benefit before committing a robbery. The average 20 y.o. tradie, drunk as a skunk on Friday night at a nightclub with his mates, doesn't carefully weigh up the satisfaction of walloping that bloke who gave him cheek versus time in prison for assault and battery before getting into a punch-up. Nearly all murders are spur of the moment things committed in the grip of strong emotions, not the result of rational calculation that might be deterred by harsh punishment.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

evidence from Finland

Evidence from Finland only applies to Finland because demographics, genetics, and culture are the driving factors and all vary widely between countries.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

People are people everywhere in the world. There's nothing special about Finland except a willingness to actually think about human psychology instead of giving in to knee-jerk revenge fantasies.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Wrong.

Provably wrong.

Obviously wrong.

Undeniably wrong.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Oh well with evidence like that, how can I argue?

🙄 🙄 🙄

[–]EddieC 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Logic points to this
 

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Public debate IS action. It demonstrates to anyone interested how stupid their arguments are. That only happens when you challenge those stupid claims. The person arguing may be a shill, but the people reading are not.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And yet you do.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, call me an idealist, but I don't like to think that folks are actually insincere, dishonest, wilfully ignorant, and delusional.

My brain tells me that's exactly what you are, but my heart tells me that no, you're just misinformed. Maybe thinking that you are actually willing to to be persuaded by facts and logic is stupid of me.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are incredibly ignorant at best and a total liar otherwise. It strains credulity to think you can't recognize racial and cultural differences between people. They are everywhere and they are obvious. Only through years of brainwashing can you be trained to ignore them, and even then it only lasts so long.