DiscussionDo you agree with gender critical feminism?

submitted by ukrdude10 from (self.LGBDropTheT)

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[–]BEB 14 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 5 fun -  (25 children)

I just want to add that a good portion of middle-aged and older US and, I think, UK, gender critical feminists are 2nd Wave feminists.

2nd Wave feminists' support was essential for homosexuals in the battle for gay rights and also to get funding for AIDS research.

So gay men like you kind of owe us for being as accepted as you are, because without heterosexual and homosexual 2nd Wave feminists, gay men, who are a small minority, would have not have had the numbers or the clout to convince lawmakers to give them rights.

When I see gay men especially wail on GC feminists I want to kick them (not literally) because you would be NOWHERE without the women who fought for you back then. The women who are now GC feminists because we woke up to the incredibly dangerous gender agenda attack on women's rights.

[–]ukrdude10[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Oh come fucking on, this sounds like a TRA rambling about Marsha P. Johnson and shit, no need for this hateful banter. I was just saying that I don't agree with vilifying all men because of actions of a few, none of us chose to be born with a penis and broad shoulders.

I support GC for the most part and read their sub regularly, I just don't think there is an all-male conspiracy to oppress women. straight men generally want to appease women for obvious reasons, while gay men are indifferent or supportive of women. But of course feel free to question my logic.

[–]BEB 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Where did I talk about vilifying all men or gay men? Where have I said there's an all-male conspiracy to oppress women?

I have literally supported gay men since the mid-1970s. I have lobbied for gay men's rights. I have nursed gay men with AIDS when people wouldn't even touch them.

The only thing I'm asking in return is that gay men REMEMBER what women have done for them - we provided the numbers to get you your rights - and we provided a hell of a lot of emotional support - and support women now that our rights, our dignity, our privacy, our safety, and our sports are under attack by former gay organizations and men who claim to be women.

[–]simpliyoot 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Gay "men" are not "men" as in theyre not part of the patriarchy. Theyre considered traitors to it and traitors are always considered worthy of death more than the people the patriarchy is meant to oppress. Heterosexual women are far closer to the patriarchy than a gay man will ever be. And no, you are not under attack by gay organizations. All of them have been hijacked by hyper aggressive, dominant, psychotic heterosexual men with the help of "intersectionality". All these former gay organizations were almost exclusively run by gay men to humanize same sex attraction. That was their only goal. And then they were slowly hijacked by lesbians who were the ones responsible for pushing out the gay men. There were no gay men to push out when the take over by straight "lesbians" happened. When the AGP men took over, they defeated the lesbians and there were no gays to be found.

And you are vilifying gay men as if theyre somehow responsible for this mess, promised to laugh at the violent homophobic backlash from this (which means you know you're going to get away from this and walk away since whats really transing them is your gender binary bullshit) and you're on a site commenting on surrogacy being used by gay men. You know, surrogacy, where 99.99999% of the clientele is exclusively straight women and the service was designed for them but the only time a feminist talks about surrogacy is when 0.00001% of the clientele, a gay man, uses it and suddenly it's misogynistic. You have an extreme bias towards gay men to the point where it distorts and warps whatever principal you're trying to push.

[–]Shales123 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

False equivalency. The difference is that the TRAs are lying in order to guilt LGB into letting transpeople rape us

[–]simpliyoot 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

...you did nothing for gay rights. literally absolutely nothing. It's been heavily debated in this sub. Only true homosexual lesbians actually helped and even that, they acknowledged they squandered most of their time on women's issues and left gays to put all the effort into homosexual rights. The reason the aids thing is brought up so often as a talking point is because thats literally the only time lesbians interacted with gay men and thought that was their contribution to gays in their campaign for same sex rights. Thats why they hold on to that talking point, otherwise, 99% of the work was almost done exclusively by gay men. And second wave feminists spent most of their time harassing lesbians and trying to appropriate their identity to turn it into a joke. You sort of forgot you're a heterosexual and try to hide behind "im a feminist", which means absolutely nothing since your people spent 2000 years basically committing genocide against gays. It took billions of dollars and mass media campaigns to persuade people to advance homosexual rights. I highly doubt a single cent was spent by your group to help with that. And homosexual lesbians dont represent the actions of heterosexual women. Theyre homosexual and were acting in their best interest. Since we're playing this game, where are my gay reparations.

[–]BEB 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Good- I'll remember your gratitude when the excesses of gender ideology turns huge swathes of the world back to overt homophobes and laugh rather than try to help you escape from the mob that wants to beat you into a pulp.

[–]simpliyoot 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

You're threatening apathy? The same apathy that you practiced before? Were you even alive when this supposed "favour" was done? Or did you read about it somewhere, forgot it was exclusively lesbians, your homophobia kicked up and you're somehow trying to collect a favour from all "gay-kind"? Im not sure if you're stupid, or if you think gay people are stupid. Gays And Lesbians have a troubled past because Gays feel the overwhelming majority of lesbians were helping carry your heterosexual homophobic asses and doing all the work for YOU with the rape crisis centers, the anti abortion movements, divorce and alimony payment legislation...just non stop homosexual female (lesbian) activism carrying your water for you while you were busy pretending to do god knows what. You're very well known to be a walking disaster and parasite to gay and lesbian movements and energy.

So, after Lesbians basically broke their backs helping you (and this is where gays have their gripe with lesbians), what exactly did you help them with in return? How did you help out with the "homosexual" part of their identity when they helped you with all the heterosexual parts of your identity? Practically nothing. Gay men had to fetishize themselves as fun, lovable accessories and emotional labour support for straight women and lesbians had to fetishize and dehumanize themselves into "fun" bimbos to counteract the "theyre going to collapse western civilization" bullshit.

And we KNOW the deep, psychotic levels of homophobia you go through. You just constantly keep forgetting you're literally a heterosexual. What you just pulled is the equivalent of "oh! so thats what YOU think? well, then im joining the KKK immediately!" thats not the sign of a stable person. You've already had KKK levels of homophobia within you. And what you said is the equivalent of me saying, "i'll remember your lack of gratitude as the straight men begin raping you and laugh rather than help you escape the men who want to slice your neck"... again, the fact that you think we dont see what you are is a joke. We've met PLENTY of your kind. No one is indebted to you for something you never did..dont try to revise gay/lesbian history, we've been through this before with transexuals, antifa anarchists, everyone else. To gays and lesbians, you're not an oppressed woman first. You're a heterosexual. And how are we supposed to align ourselves with you in your fantasy military war general scenario where you think you're building some armada but the gays you tried to recruit find you to be an idiot because your analysis sucks. You dont even understand that heterosexism is causing all these innocent children to transition, and not "gender ideology". You're probably not even aware 90% of these transexuals are heterosexual men and women. You're too busy hyper focusing on "the big bad evil men", which can sometimes be accurate but everyone rolls their eyes when people like you see an asteroid coming to wipe out all life on the planet and call it sexist because it's going to kill all women.

oh, im sure some heterosexual men have helped you with your feminist campaigns in the past (which im sure you barely contributed to). Do you feel like you owe heterosexual men and then accept them as normal sane people when they threaten rape or death when you dont show "gratitude"? Or does it end up just validating every single thing you thought about them.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Welcome back, exponent2. Already get sick of your new alt?

[–]fuck_reddit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

“Gay men... would not have had the numbers or the clout to convince lawmakers to give them rights.” Yeah, tell that to the hundreds, if not thousands of gay executives and high-level bureaucrats that poured hundreds of millions of dollars into marriage equality campaigning and spent hundreds of thousands of hours speaking directly to presidents, senators, and congressmen.

[–]BEB 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm talking about before. The 2nd Wave feminism of the 1960s and 1970s. I was around from the mid-1970s. Most gay men were not openly gay outside of gay bubbles. Pretty much everyone in their lives knew they were gay, but it was mostly don't ask, don't tell. And they lived in fear of being beaten up on the street, or losing their jobs, or apartments, for being gay.

I have a very close friend from university, who has never told me he is gay. EVER. About ten years ago, he introduced me to his male partner, but never said, WE ARE PARTNERS, or I AM GAY. He has never told any of his old friends that he's gay, even though we all knew in university and couldn't have cared less, but didn't mention it because he didn't. Again, don't ask, don't tell.

I had a boss in the '80s, a fabulously successful and very nice man - same deal. He had a beard (a woman he pretended was his girlfriend) and the more cruel people in the office would make fun of him and his beard behind his back.

Even in 2004, when Gavin Newsom legalized gay marriage in San Francisco, the backlash helped George W. Bush win re-election because Americans still weren't ready.

Hell, even in 2008 CALIFORNIA (home of uber-liberal nut jobs) had Prop 8 on the ballot trying to ban gay marriage. AND IT PASSED.

Bottom line: women have traditionally been always more on the side of gay men than straight men have in many cultures. I have traveled a lot for an American, including in cultures where gay men are encouraged or forced to transition - it's women protecting gay men in most of them.

And it was women in the US who provided the numbers and the support for society in general to accept gay men.

Before COVID I used to fly a few times a month. I am a chatty person and look harmless so UBER drivers open up to me, and, anecdotally, I would guess that there are a lot of straight men in this country (the over 40s perhaps) who have still not accepted gay men, they're just hiding it because to say it now in public would be suicidal. But go look at the comment section of Breitbart if you want to see how much support heterosexual men give gay men.

And now, gay male leaders, (mostly younger) gay men and the organizations gay men helped build, have turned on all women, with their support of gender identity policies like the Equality Act, which will set women's rights, women's privacy, women's dignity, women's safety and women's sports back years to decades.

So yeah, I am not happy.