you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]MarkTwainiac 24 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I told him that “being” a woman takes a lot of WORK, that his zero-effort bachelor lifestyle is OK for a man but won't cut it for a woman. But he seems to think that a woman is just something that you “are” if you think you are. When I tried to tell him that being a woman is harder than it looks, he didn’t seem to understand.

I imagined TIMs as people who understand women and want to put in the work to become one.

I’m not saying that housekeeping and grooming make women women, but the expectations are so much higher. Repressively so. How can someone who lives in filth say he “feels like a woman?” What does he even think a woman is? What level of success does he even expect to have as a fat smelly TIM?

Welcome to the summit. But sorry, I think you are coming at this situation from the wrong angle.

In fact, a woman IS "just something you are" if you meet three simple criteria: you are a female human being age 18 or above. A woman is an adult human female.

To be a woman requires no "work." Being a woman doesn't meeting certain grooming, hygiene or housekeeping standards. It means being an adult human female. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

There are many women in the world who could be described as you describe this man who disgusts you: fat, smelly, slovenly, unkempt, with stained teeth, bad skin, dandruff, who live in filthy conditions. Some of them live this way because they are desperately poor in extremely impoverished countries, or they are stateless refugees like the Rohingya, and they have no choice but to live in huts, tents or shanties with dirt floors, no plumbing or electricity - and they have been beaten & beaten down all their lives.

Some women in wealthy countries are as slovenly and live in as much filth as the man you describe because they've been beaten down by life in different ways and they are mentally ill. You can get a glimpse into their lives by watching such USA television shows as Hoarders: Buried Alive.

Some women in wealthy countries like the USA live this way because they were born intellectually disabled and have no family to care for them and they have fallen through the cracks of what little social safety net there is in the US. (excuse the mixed metaphors) Some women live this way coz as they've grown elderly, they have become both physically disabled and intellectually disabled due to dementia - and again, in the US there is no social care system for them.

Again, a woman is simply an adult human female. Women who do not meet the grooming, hygiene and housekeeping standards that some other women hold dear are still as much women as women who spend oodles of time, money and energy on presenting a polished personal image and a picture of the perfectly-kept domicile to the world.

[–]Doberlady[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I know exactly what you're talking about and that's part of the reason I'm so mad about this. I hate societal pressures on women and how they exist to help men control and infantilize them. But just because I don't like the rules doesn't mean they're not there. If a man wants to "be" a woman, they're suddenly going to become subject to those rules and I don't think men understand how much pressure they'll be under. Of course they don't, because they weren't socialized as women, under that pressure from birth.

And it pisses me off. I'm jealous that TIMs think they can have it so easy. My whole life I feel like I’ve been denied the right to feel like a woman because I’m fat and unattractive and because of patriarchal pressures that dictate that women don't exist if they're not fuckable. I’ve been spending a lifetime struggling to perform to the standards of femininity while also questioning them with feminism, thinking about all the complexities of being a woman, trying to separate the shackles of the patriarchy from what womanhood really is, Etc… Then this dude who’s as far from “ladylike” as you can get thinks he can just jump the queue with zero effort and just be a woman, just like that? No effort, no intellectual understanding required? No pressures? Just declare you’re a woman and voila!, that’s all there is to it? It makes me so mad the more I think about it. I just wanna scream in his pimply face, "WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!"