Update from r/GC Mods on Twitter: "busily working on a new site which will restore our opportunity to speak freely about issues that concern women."

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[–]millicentfawcett 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I really hope this works out. I'm interested to know how it will be tackled because it won't be easy.

Spinster has worked so far because the fediverse is decentralised and the code open source, despite that a huge number of other instances in the fediverse have blocked Spinster to their users and vice versa.

A more traditional forum will be harder. I know most of us here won't be fans of Kiwi Farms but it's a good example of a standalone site that's constantly targeted for takedown. As I understand it the owner had to set up his own hosting company and servers - that's the first thing people target if you're using 3rd party hosting. I'm not clear how he finances this because all avenues of monetising the site have been blocked - ad services won't work with the site, payment processors blocked, banned from all sites like Patreon, merchandising a non starter (see payment processors). I believe he eventually left the US and lives somewhere in Eastern Europe, I presume to escape being targeted and perhaps so the site sits outside of other jurisdictions.

In the current climate I struggle to see how a start up Gender Critical site is going to make it. Mumsnet is just about hanging on because it's been established about 20 years, probably has it's own servers at this point and the feminism board is only one part of the overall business. Even so the situation is precarious and the withdrawal of some advertising and partnerships a blow to the business model.

I'm full of admiration for their ambitions but I feel like it's going to need a big injection of capital to survive the first year or so (anyone have JKR's number?!!!!)

[–]Haunter 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

Mr. Moon finances the Kiwi Farms mainly through contributions from its users and the occasional sale of merch, the latter being the way he recently covered the cost of a new server and its installation. He ordinarily pulls in about $1,800 a month in pledges. He gets additional revenue from his 1776 Hosting company and freelance coding gigs.

He moved to Ukraine, then Poland, then Serbia mainly because he can live comfortably there on only about $500 a month. Visa restrictions mean he can only stay in a country for a limited amount of time, hence the moves. All of his assets including his servers and his bank accounts remain in the U.S.

A couple of years ago, he threw the Kiwi Farms open to GC'ers forced off of other forums and the existing members there largely accepted the newcomers as somewhat kindred spirits. You're free to express any kind of opinion there as long as you're not advocating something illegal in the U.S. (where hate speech is not illegal, so feel free to use biologically accurate pronouns), but you do have to read enough to learn the culture before you begin posting so you don't disrupt the forum.

Moon would probably host a separate GC site at reasonable cost and protect it from takedown attempts. He made that offer to Gallus Mag when Wordpress took down her site and tried to withhold even her archives. She didn't take him up on the offer, probably for the same reason many other GC'ers wouldn't want to. But it remains an option. I don't know what arrangements she made for her revived site, but asking her about that might surface a good option.

[–]millicentfawcett 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the explanation. I was wrong about a few things but I think the fact he has found a way to live 'outside the system' is relevant. If he wasn't self employed I've no doubt he'd be fired. I have no idea about the lives of the women setting up the GC site though so perhaps they have means of being independent enough to do it.

[–]Haunter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nah. I wasn't contradicting anything you posted - just expanding on it. One particularly important point you made that I should have re-emphasized is that the achilles heel has proven to be the payment processors. Moon has been able to best all of the technical challenges thrown at him, but can't surmount a financial blockade.

His most recent merch run was halted two or three times for that very reason. Though Dick Masterson (@thedickshow) was able to supply a way out of the trap, that was short-lived and would be an unlikely source of help for a site by and for women. I hope the GC team succeeds.

[–]writerlylesbian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't think Gallus ever did revive GenderTrender, even just as an archive. I assume it would have been too difficult to reconstruct from what she had left. She'd also been keeping the site going for a long time - I think it was over 7 years by the time our lovely Yaniv finally got her. She'd gone through multiple doxing attempts, had to moderate shit tons of abusive comments every day, nearly lost the blog on several earlier occasions because of targeted harassment. I think she may have been at a point where she was ready to retire, and it was very well earned. That site did a similar job of consciousness raising and giving women and LGB people a space to talk about the TRAs and their antics, at a time when the discussion was happening absolutely nowhere else.

[–]weirdthorn 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

https://www.gendertrending.com/

[–]writerlylesbian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I stand corrected! Great to see that archive.

[–]Haunter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That MeowMix has survived on Wordpress since November despite repeated challenges from Yaniv may show that Wordpress learned a lesson after destroying the original Gendertrender, not that they'll ever admit it.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Never new that place existed! Honestly, I prefer that kind of old-school forum setup, but I guess I'm aging myself.

[–]Thatstealthygal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I can't support that guy after he refused to take down video of a mass murder.

[–]WrongToy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That video showed that the murderer went through a mass murder, meandered back to his car, went down a street SHOOTING OUT his own windows and then apparently went somewhere else, all without cop response for at least 10 minutes.

That video was also requisitioned by at least four PD departments. Did Moon tell them to torrent no, he sent them a DVD copy.

Josh did not appreciate the NZ police telling him that he had to not only take down that video but also provide them with the whole KF database of users interacting the week before. THAT is why he told them to FO and I would have also.

[–]Haunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's worth noting that Moon got the video from an wide-open public page on Facebook. Facebook faced no consequence for having provided the mass murderer with a global platform.

[–]Thatstealthygal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah they should have for sure.