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[–]comradeconradical 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (42 children)

Oh, is refusing all males in female spaces not a valid approach to mitigating predators in said spaces? Okay then.

I've also ventured to ask how this can be, but no one has been able to argue a good point differentiating between 'good faith' trans and 'bad faith' trans. Has your group had any progress on the topic?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Idk why we can’t just have female spaces. Someone’s always got some man in mind that ~deserves~ an exception.

[–]comradeconradical 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Right??

But didn't you know it's offensive to male feelings and handmaiden woke sensibilities to acknowledge sex based rights? :/

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

I forgot Nigel living as nigella for at least 12 months means literal incapacity for violence or perversion. My b.

[–]comradeconradical 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

LMAO omg the amount of times I've encountered this very argument unironically... "6 months on estrogen makes a male a valid female" PLEASE

Btw I always love reading your comments, thank you for sharing :)

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Such a random window to decide they have done some sailor moon style transformation into a dainty wee girl. Why is it always 6 months? Ahaha we mutual fans of each other’s comments.

[–]againstpedorights 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Right

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (35 children)

Our group has discussed this and we plan to discuss it further with more members. As I stated in a reply to another person in this thread we all agree that case by case scrutiny is the best way to make that decision. Long-standing, well documented gender dysphoria or transsexualism with thorough treatment is part of the solution that we all agree on. We also are all in favor of pushing for more installation of private unisex stalls that already exist and are widely used.

[–]comradeconradical 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

Ok, so you don't want me as a member because I'm contrary to your opinion, or what?

I always advocate for third spaces for transgendered people. That is the best solution to keeping female spaces safe.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (29 children)

Our group was founded on mutual agreement and respect. Since it consists of GC feminists and trans people, both groups of people are working on common goals, not just focusing on one group's needs and protection, but both. If a person might disregard or debate the legitimacy or needs of one group but not the other, this is not the group for them.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

Which to some looks like a feminist group arguing to make female spaces open to males who perform femininity at an acceptable level, an anti feminist act.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (25 children)

I suppose that's where some gender critical feminists will disagree with each other. I can't really speak on those members' behalf.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

I don’t think anyone can call themselves feminist whilst arguing for the removal of women’s rights to separation from males. It’s supporting men, not women.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (23 children)

I guess that's an argument you would have to take that up with them then, all I can say is they consider themselves gender critical radical feminists and I met them on Ovarit.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Nah. Libfems don’t learn. Radical feminism does not involve deciding some men are special and get to be women if they dress right/have more surgeries/have larped as a woman for fifty years.

Men’s privilege activism doesn’t belong on ovarit and I’m sorta glad I don’t bother with it much.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

You may want to if you don't think it belongs on there. But I haven't seen any sort of men's privilege activism there. I guess you can have similar discussions about who is a legitimate GC radfem much like we trans people have discussions and arguments about who is a legitimate trans person!

[–]comradeconradical 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hm why should any male NEED to access female spaces though? I think both groups would benefit from third spaces.

Is it disrespectful to acknowledge the different needs of both groups? This reminds me of being called a bigot for realizing biological differences do matter. What other solutions have you determined other than separation?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Everyone would surely benefit from more unisex single stalls. I don't have any reason why any male should other than certain trans women (trying to use the lingo here, sorry if I'm making anything confusing).

It's not disrespectful to acknowledge different needs at all and both groups acknowledge our different needs, but we're all people coming together based on our shared beliefs. We respect each others' different needs. We are just starting the group and trying to find people to get involved, so we haven't come up with anything beyond that yet. This post was created in the hopes that we could find more people to further the discussion :)

[–]Juniperius 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The only way case by case scrutiny makes sense is if you're talking about a limited community. In a particular group of say, <100 people, someone can be given a pass by the group because everyone knows them and that pass can theoretically be revoked for bad behavior. But if you're talking about the wider world, about getting a pass from a therapist or governmental body or whatever and going out in public with it, around people who haven't been part of the decision making process, then a) you're involving people who haven't consented and b) no matter what your system is it can always be gamed by bad actors.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Aren't most trans people who pass completely and live "stealth" de facto already being given a pass by default by no one being the wiser that they were trans? They demonstrated that they have integrated into society. I say this because many if not most of these people might just ignore whatever legislation that targeted trans people, because no one knows they're trans anyway and they would likely want to keep it that way. There's a good possibility they wouldn't out themselves, because they aren't predatory men. Most actual trans people just want to blend in and just live their lives. The system to be legally and socially considered trans is already being gamed by bad actors, specifically so they can hide behind transsexualism and use actual trans people as a shield.

Here's the thing: we can probably best solve the problem without legislation. A lot of us trans people want to call out and stop bad people claiming to be trans, and a lot of non-trans people want to do the same. A lot of trans people would want to work with non-trans people together to help stop this problem, but a lot of non-trans people view trans people and people who hide behind transgenderism to hurt others the same, so trans people are too scared to approach non-trans people who do this. Many non-trans people have had bad experiences with trans people, or more likely people who hide behind transgenderism, so they have stopped supporting trans people or just don't like them. They see them all being the same.

[–]Juniperius 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Pro-tip: "You can't stop us, because we are the best liars" isn't a really good argument as to why you are different from predators.

Pragmatically it is true that we can't stop men who fully pass as women from entering our private spaces. This does not translate to them having a right, or us giving them a pass. Would the invisible man have a right, or a pass, to go in women's bathrooms? Does any man have a right to place a small, unnoticeable camera in the women's bathrooms? Does someone's younger sibling have a right to sneak into their bedroom and read their diary? Did Bruce Jenner have a pass to wear his daughter's underwear until she caught him? If I don't know someone is violating my privacy, I can't object, but that makes it more of a violation, not less.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, putting it like that sounds quite awful! Do you have a suggestion for a solution that might help everyone?