QT: What about transgender women who are men?

submitted by SnowAssMan from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

  1. I don’t need definitions for words I know the meaning of. Especially not from you of all people. Also- being able to acknowledge something doesn’t mean you are “a-okay” with it. It means you are capable of acknowledging it.

  2. Surgery and hormones are not medicine. But, to address what you’re saying, yes I absolutely think that it is better for someone embarking on a lifelong road of synthetic hormones and possibly life altering surgery should display behavior that indicates that they will be mentally capable of coping with reality should their bubble ever be burst by society. Doesn’t mean I don’t think the trans people who suffer from a mental disorder shouldn’t have the disorder treated. Yes, as a woman I would feel safer knowing that each and every TW I encounter in spaces I’m forced to share with them are capable of respecting the differences between us and isn’t going to disrespect female boundaries and justify it by saying they’re a woman too. Just a personal preference, and not a preference that has stopped then from getting the treatment.

  3. Okay, transwomen are dysphoric men according to many/most people, including some of the people who treat them.

  4. Saying that everyone knows transwoman is code for “dysphoric man” isn’t about hate. I don’t hate men or the word men. That’s your thing. Stop projecting.

  5. We’re not talking about all of your rights, we’re talking about the rights you have concerning transitioning.

  6. Lmao that’s not true. The approval rates are dropping because people are being peaked left and right. There’s a lot of reasons I’m sure- but the cancel culture and TWAW and langage shit and non-binary, and all the extra letters and the way the LGBT flag was destroyed revamped, the children being transed and put on blockers or more... that’s got a lot to do with it, is what I’m saying.

  7. We’re talking about what is current, not what you say is coming but is not yet here. Right now, you’d be protected for being gnc

  8. The point is you’d get the same treatment because it is accepted as the treatment. If it’s used to hurt you in your scenario it’s being used to hurt you now.

  9. Thats your opinion. Not everyone’s. This is why I say your opinion isn’t fact or the consensus. The TWAW narrative and everything that goes with it (even things you don’t ever argue but other do) contributes to a lot of the pushback. TRAs are attempting mass conversion therapy and censorship on everyone who isn’t trans, people don’t like it.

  10. Again, your opinion. I am certain beyond doubt that transwomen are men and I am not upset that TW exist, I’m upset they don’t respect women’s rights or women imo. Most people just don’t want to be pressured to sleep with TW and stuff like that. Not everyone who doesn’t see you how you wish is actively against you, most people just want to live and let live and not have their rights infringed upon.

  11. This was too dramatic for me to respond without snark so I’m just gonna send what I typed and leave it alone

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Surgery and hormones are not medicine.

By any definition they are.

But, to address what you’re saying, yes I absolutely think that it is better for someone embarking on a lifelong road of synthetic hormones and possibly life altering surgery should display behavior that indicates that they will be mentally capable of coping with reality should their bubble ever be burst by society.

That makes no sense. Transition is to treat dysphoria, those people are the ones with little or no dysphoria.

Saying that everyone knows transwoman is code for “dysphoric man” isn’t about hate. I don’t hate men or the word men. That’s your thing. Stop projecting.

Sure I hate men and you just hate trans women. Though you do think we are men. I didn’t think you hated trans people for a while but I am now convinced you do. I could be wrong, I’m not a mind reader but I see more vitriol from you than almost anyone else.

We’re not talking about all of your rights, we’re talking about the rights you have concerning transitioning.

Not so easily separated.

We’re talking about what is current, not what you say is coming but is not yet here. Right now, you’d be protected for being gnc.

No. For being trans, not gnc, and expressly only from employment discrimination not other types. Thought gnc people would probably also be protected but under separate justification.

Not everyone who doesn’t see you how you wish is actively against you, most people just want to live and let live and not have their rights infringed upon.

I must disagree. Most people who don’t think trans women are women do wish us ill actively.

This was too dramatic for me to respond without snark so I’m just gonna send what I typed and leave it alone

You asked. I don’t know what you expected other than trans rights are in a negative direction .

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

  1. Sorry- cross sex hormones being given to a body that is not ill and in need of them for health reasons is not medicine. And neither is cosmetic/elective surgery.

  2. Regardless of what dysphoria is about, according to you, we live in a world hostile to trans people. I stand by saying it makes more sense to me that someone who has or will physically transition should be able to accept and state clearly the biological truth. If having to say that you’re a man triggers you to such a devastating degree (not you you- some hypothetical “You”) then in addition to cross sex Hormones and surgery, coping mechanisms for the harsh mean world should also be supplied. In any case, I feel like transwomen who can acknowledge the fact that they are men in the literal definitive sense will be much better off then you in many ways. Frankly if what you’re saying is true and trans rights are doomed, the TW who can call themselves men And accept it as accurate (technically) will probably fair better than the ones who can’t.

  3. I don’t hate transwomen lol. I just think You in particular and a few others (a few being three others specifically, one of whom apologized to me and acknowledged they went too far and the other two admitted and unapologetic rapists hard core “stealthers”) are incredibly hypocritical and narcissistic, as well as unaware of some of the misogyny you exhibit, tends to color my responses to y’all. Sorry. I don’t think this applies to all or even most TW. Unless you’re saying any one who does think you’re women automatically hates you. That’s just false. As I’ve said many times. If I hated TW I wouldn’t waste my time here, especially after the reddit sub was shut down. I came to the reddit sub because I didn’t want to be GC and I thought interacting with TW willing to actually discuss things would help. Instead the opposite happened and I was pushed further GC because of my interactions. Doesn’t mean I hate TW, means I view things differently and don’t sugar coat myself.

  4. It’s absurd to claim that most people who don’t think TWAW actively wish you ill. This type of exaggeration is why you get what you consider vitriol from me. I don’t have patience for people who make themselves out to be the victim. I’m sure I’ll end up doing it anyway if you keep responding- but I don’t have the energy to type the many many many ways that this is just utter bullshit.

  5. I did ask. You took it to deadnames and all this extra shit and I’m already exhausted from our other convo

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

  1. I disagree but this is tangent.

  2. They aren’t trans. They’re better off in every sense. They’re transitioning for fun or gratification rather than the medicine that transition is supposed to be.

  3. You’ve made your dislike of me imminently clear, what with the constant insults. I just think you also hate trans people generally. Again I could be wrong but I strongly suspect I am not.

  4. Your continued denial of how hated trans women are will never cease to amaze me. You’re right most people don’t think trans women are women. And about a quarter of people say we shouldn’t have any kind of protections. That’s a lot of people who are actively anti trans. You can’t just pretend they don’t exist.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. Unless you are their doctor and you met with them and didn’t find a reason to diagnose them as dysphoric- it’s not for you to say. You don’t know these people or how they feel. You don’t get to decide that they aren’t trans just because they can say things that you personally find too painful to say.

  2. I’m actually pretty neutral on you, I just don’t sugar coat my words. If i disliked or hated you youd be blocked or ignored. I certainly wouldn’t reply to you. There are times when you frustrate me or even upset me, yes, but it is not in a personal way for me, it’s our stances. I am constantly apologizing to you for my wording and trying to understand. I type like I speak I am very blunt and I don’t have patience for certain things. I get exasperated sometimes with you, don’t hate or dislike you. And my attitude towards you has been directed at some GC people and not directed at many QT people. It all depends on what’s being said and discussed.

  3. Okay- I said “most” people don’t actively seek to harm you. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t some people. That doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge that this is a thing TW encounter- it means most people prefer to live and let live and not be forced into anything. 25% against you means 75% is either supportive or neutral. So like I said “most”. I’m not pretending it doesn’t exist, I’m saying this sub has discussed time and time again how this claim of violence is exaggerated. If the rate of violence and abuse or just sheer hatred you claim existed then the laws being passed allowing TW into female spaces, sports, and prisons wouldn’t exist. Lying on legal documents wouldnt be an option. People losing their jobs for saying sex can’t be changed or beloved celebrities being “canceled” for saying TW aren’t women wouldn’t happen. Children wouldn’t be being transed (also, if society actively hated you so much adults probably wouldn’t be allowed to transition). The reddit subs wouldn’t have been banned... there’d be a hell of a lot more assault and murders of TW being committed... I could keep going but my point is that nothing I said ignored what does happen to TW sometimes, I’m saying you exaggerate constantly.