GC: Can you explain why a neopenis/phalloplasty is not a penis? If a man is something with a penis, then if a man removes all of his genitals in surgery, why will he still remain a man after surgery?

submitted by GarageCar from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]GarageCar[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

maybe these transmen are considered about the same class of men as the natal men who lost their penises in some freak accident.

I have a question, you said a transman is not in the same class of natal men who lost their dicks in an accident but then said maybe a transman is in the same class of natal men who lost their dicks in an accident, or am I reading this incorrectly?

Men with micro-penises have serious mental issues from that too.

I have another question here too. Are you saying men with small penises have mental health issues because they have small penises?

Except the one wrestler Mack Beggs, who suddenly fell off the face of the Earth after highschool. I've been watching to see how well he competes against real men, but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. That asshole ruining the wrestling experience for every woman in his district. Selfish cheater.

Don't GCs say trans men are women and can compete in women's sports because they are women? And that trans men can not be him or his or he but that they are her or she?

[–]Yayme 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

No. I said a fake penis is not the same class of penis as a real penis. And then I said maybe trans women would be considered in the class of men that has a fake penis, I guess.

And yes, I'm saying men with a MICRO penis probably have mental health issues. Maybe you're not familiar with a micro penis? It's less than three inches when erect. You can browse their sub at reddit if you want, and make your own determinations as to their mental health. But the sub description is -A community dedicated to the 0.06% of men with micropenis. Whether you want positivity and support, humiliation and teasing, or simply discussion; if it has to do with abnormally small penises, it belongs here.

I suspect you're just itching to get on your high horse and preach some moral outrage to me because I'm being honest here and saying dick size and quality matters. But I don't care. It does matter. There is no way I would have dated a man with a fake penis, or a micro-penis when I was looking for a life partner. And if you think most people don't feel they way I do, then you're either deluding yourself, of your clueless.

So, why any trans man would think it's going to be a better life with a fake penis, is beyond my understanding. Most people aren't looking for a sympathy project when they're choosing a life partner. They're looking for a good fit for everything - sexually, values, morals, lifestyle, goals. And SEX is a big part of that for most people. And for most people who like dick, size and being real matters.

GC says trans men cannot compete in women's sports if they are on performance enhancing drugs, such as testosterone.

So, I answered all your questions. What about mine....

What do you mean by a "man?"

Do you mean these transmen should be housed in men's prisions if they commit a crime? Most of them don't really want that.

Do you mean they should be able to wear masculine clothes? They can.

Do you mean they should be able to compete in men's sports? They never seem to want to do that. Except the one wrestler Mack Beggs, who suddenly fell off the face of the Earth after highschool. I've been watching to see how well he competes against real men, but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. That asshole ruining the wrestling experience for every woman in his district. Selfish cheater.

Or do you mean what I suspect you mean - which is that gay men should have sex with them.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

They never seem to want to do that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuyler_Bailar

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Mosier

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricio_Manuel

[–]Yayme 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Well good for Schuyler! I stand corrected. Though most of what you linked actually happened when he was still a she. It was certainly hard determine when he transitioned. It looks like below is the relevant part, since he transitioned in 2014... and the rest of it is when he was competing with women.

In 2019, Bailar completed his college career posting the "third fastest" time for 100-yard-breaststroke for the Harvard team in the 2018-2019 season and won his third Ivy-League Championship ring as part of the Crimson's highest ranked team since the1960/1961 season - 8th at the 2019 NCAA Championships.[27][28] Although Bailar began his college swimming career with low expectations, his final 100-yard breaststroke time ranked him in the top 15% of all NCAA swims for the season and in the top 34% of all NCAA Division 1 swims for the season.[29]

The other two are kind of silly. A racewalker who never even competed, and a person who boxed one man.

But good for Schuyler! I mean, it's not like he was crushing records like the transwomen do... but, when he was on a team, his team did do pretty well. He didn't ruin it for them.

[–]GarageCar[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

when he was still a she. It was certainly hard determine when he transitioned.

According to the GC arguments, one can not go from a he to a she, or from a she to a he, and that trans men on hormones are still female because hormones and surgeries do not change sex, so I don't see why as a GC you call trans men he instead of she and why you say they became the opposite sex by taking hormones or getting surgeries.

[–]Yayme 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Did you even GCDebatesQT before?

From the sidebar - The rules about language usage will not be changed. Use of TERF, MTT, FTT, TIF, TIM, and the t-slur and misgendering of other users is not permitted.

Edit to add: The idea was that it was supposed to be respectful debate. It wasn't supposed to make anyone feel shitty. And maybe I could understand more about trans people, and they could understand more about me. So, most people tried to be nice.

Natal woman. Trans man. Whatever you want to say.

[–]GarageCar[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't know the rule was not to "misgender" users, I apologize. I only lurked a few times on that previous GCDebatesQT subreddit before it got shut down by the admins, because I never participated in there I didn't read the rules. Thank you for letting me know about it :))

[–]GarageCar[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I just meant I don't think men with very small penises have mental health issues, what mental health issues would they have? If it's depression, then I would say that's because they get shamed for having a very small penis or it is because they are in a society humans created that they get shamed for their small penises and fear rejection, etc so that leads to mental health issues such as depression. I just don't see how simply having a very small micro penis less than 2 inches leads to mental health issues itself. Would you say women with very small breasts have mental health issues simply because their breasts are very small? Or would you say women who are born with small uteruses, etc have mental health issues?

GC says trans men cannot compete in women's sports if they are on performance enhancing drugs, such as testosterone.

I see, thank you for informing me because I didn't know that part of the GC argument. But GC says a trans man on performance enhancing drugs such as testosterone is a female, so to answer your "do you mean they should be able to compete in men's sports?", trans men should not compete in men's sports. It makes no sense for a female to compete in men's sports no matter how much testosterone she takes, and I think there should be a separate sport just for trans men, because they don't belong in men's sports either.

What do you mean by a "man?"

Here's the part I have an issue. TQs say "man" does not mean male and "woman" does not mean female, and that the words "man" and "woman" refer to the social roles and gender instead of sex. My question would be why can't the word man have a meaning other than male and why can't the word woman have a meaning other than female?

Do you mean these transmen should be housed in men's prisions if they commit a crime?

I think most trans men don't really want to be in men's prisons because they are female, so they shouldn't be in men's prisons.

Do you mean they should be able to wear masculine clothes?

Sure thing, anyone can wear whatever they want :))

[–]Yayme 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Would you say women with very small breasts have mental health issues simply because their breasts are very small?

Most of the ones I know, unfortunately, have had very low self esteem. And most of them get breast implants.

TQs say "man" does not mean male and "woman" does not mean female, and that the words "man" and "woman" refer to the social roles and gender instead of sex.

Some of them will give lip service to that argument for like two seconds, and then shout on about how TWAW, and they need to be in women's sports, like we divide sports for social reasons, and not biological reasons.

And now the new argument is that biological sex is a spectrum.

They believe that they are women because they believe they are women. That's really all it amounts too. And playing along with them and coddling them is just making it worse. I feel bad for the ones who have legitimate dysphoria. But my sympathy only extends so far.

[–]GarageCar[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most of the ones I know, unfortunately, have had very low self esteem. And most of them get breast implants.

That's very unfortunate news. I believe the men who have micro penises smaller than 2-3 inches and the women who have very small breasts have low self esteem because they fear being shamed for having micro penises or very small breasts. In this society, women are expected to have big breasts and men are expected to have big-enough penises. These expectations lead to people who do not meet those expectations feeling shame, being depressed and having low self esteems when they think they are just not good enough like the others and will be ostracized for having small breasts or very small micro penises. These things don't really have anything to do with having small micro penises or very small breasts themselves, since correlation does not mean causation. It is that in a society where people wouldn't get shamed for having micro penises or small breasts, people who have those would not have any mental health issues either

And now the new argument is that biological sex is a spectrum.

They really do not stop at one argument as you said, that time when JK Rowling shared her GC arguments on Twitter, I just clicked on the replies underneath, and though the trans men and trans women there started with "nobody said sex isn't real, it's just gender is different from sex and a trans man is socially a man/male", etc they literally moved to "sex is a spectrum" or even "sex isn't real" in a matter of just 2 tweets afterwards. I'm like, "can you really not see you contradicted yourself?"

I agree with you that patting the trans men and trans women on the back will make it worse, and the frustration you feel is understandable