there’s no point living in a man’s world, suicide shouldn’t be so taboo

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[–]storyendingnever 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Yes, it is fascinating how there are many people perfectly willing to stand in a person's way when it comes to choosing the date and means of one's death, and also willing to criminalize what should be your basic right, but they are definitely not willing to examine the conditions that bring a person to that decision or to help that person out in a non-selfish way. Same with other control-over-one's-body issues (i.e., aborting unwanted parasites).

I'm inclined to agree with you on the university front. It is not the place to be an intelligent female these days. If you're going to stick around, figuring out how you're going to make money is the kicker. If you can manage that (and it is NOT easy), and you're committed to staying man and child-free, just spend your life doing weird and crazy shit and learning as much interesting stuff that will make being on this earth worth it. There are still cool things to experience if you can craft your life in a way that minimizes your exposure to people who know you're an outsider and see you as a threat. But you have to be a brave and very self-possessed woman, and be okay with some loneliness and very slim means. Society is a killer.

[–]bbbarbican 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Like you, I see suicide as a basic right, as the ultimate freedom and it baffles me that for so many people death appears to be the worst thing that could ever happen. Is it really so hard to understand that for some, the end of their suffering is a good thing? For some women death is a relief. I completely get that. I think it's the height of arrogance to tell people they should love life and that 'life is beautiful' or whatever I personally like my life overall and manage to enjoy bits and pieces here and there and have no wish to kill myself (I did at one point but frankly wouldn't have done it because it takes a lot of courage) but would never presume to decide for someone else. Another aspect of the suicide taboo is the immediate insistence to try therapy. I've never been able to figure out what the hell people who claim to have been helped by therapy actually GOT in therapy that was so great. Therapy in my experience was just a whole lot of platitudes at best. Even when I was using it to vent about some stuff, I never got any insight from therapists. It was often gaslighting and at the end of the day, a waste of time and money. But so many women (since most clients in therapy are women) swear by it and it's impossible to criticize therapy, even among feminists. And if you do, it's because you didn't find the 'right' therapist or it's because you didn't try enough.

[–]storyendingnever 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

wow, cool. You're on two of my favourite topics: death and therapy ;) This could easily be hours, days of interesting discussion.

While the concept of mortality is super complicated in and of itself, how people deal with it fascinates me; the behaviour death inspires is truly weird and horrible and very occasionally wonderful. I suspect that it is a major underlying driver of most, if not all, male behaviour - this love-hate-fear-ignorance of dying. There are feminist writers out there who have written extensively on that. But yeah, male and female alike, few things get people riled up more than being forced to face mortality and other people who want to deal with it differently than they do.

I remember a few years back reading a seriously heated discussion on some lesbian blog I used to frequent, mostly as a lurker, about which was worse: being raped or being killed. And of course, there were two camps. The 'death is worse' camp, which seemed to attract more straight women and religious women, was in a complete frenzy and they couldn't understand why some women would prefer to die. It was interesting and bizarre. It think so many women are so trained to see suffering, especially life-long suffering, and especially suffering at the hands of men, as a natural and acceptable part of their lives (and thus not really a big deal), and are influenced heavily by rape not being taken very seriously as a crime (and this is just my opinion, but most consensual intercourse is just consensual rape), while death is a complete unknown and therefore terrifying. I think the debate was a bit pointless, even though interesting. These 'which is worse' or 'would you rather' hypotheticals speak a lot about personal psychology, but are probably better as drinking games. I think time would have been better spent asking women why they feel they have a right to have a say in a stranger's intimate decision-making processes. And I completely agree with you - turning a personal judgment of another's choice not to suffer or whether they are suffering into a hijacking of that person's right to decide is arrogant and a boundary trespass. Judge people, sure go for it. But you can't take their right to act away.

Therapy. Never been, never will go. But two of my degrees are in psychology! Although I'm more hard science (psychobiology and data science/psychometrics). But I've orbited the psychopathology crowd since I was born - father was a psychologist and an abuser, and I've assisted many clinicians and forensics folks in research settings. I think the mindfuckery of my household under the control of a professional mindfucker, in and of itself would prevent me from ever seeking out professional help. But I'm of mixed minds on the efficacy of therapy. I think that has long been an issue in the clinical world - does therapy work and if so, how? And no one has been able to figure it out. I think in many cases for women, just having someone listen to you instead of use you in a myriad of ways is a big deal and can be the sole measure of success. There are a lot of people who are really looking for a label. Feeling fucked up, having been told you are fucked up all your life, and then having someone in a position of authority tell you exactly how you are fucked up, complete with a shiny label can be a great relief to many people. Very validating. Even if the diagnosis is wrong. Even if you have been gaslit into seeing the problem being you instead of say, an abusive parent or partner. I guess I kind of get how that could be a relief, if I look at it from a physical disease point of view. If you feel physically unwell for a long time and then finally you find a doctor who can diagnose you, most people will feel relieved and feel like they have some control (even if it isn't a lot or if the diagnosis is wrong). They can focus on the diagnosis, look for information, and try to fix it. Most people just don't deal with uncertainty of lack of control very well. I don't know if I would recommend most people go to therapy. It is expensive, and I've known a lot of clinical folks in my professional life and many of them have as many issues as the people they are trying to help. And the potential for abuse is HUGE!!! I don't believe men belong in the helping professions, but there are a lot of destructive women who gravitate there too. Having said that, I wouldn't write the whole profession off. It is probably more effective if the person going into it has some really clear goals, and does their research into therapy orientations. I think a lot of women really just need to been seen and heard, and I also think that removing men from their lives would do wonders for both their mental and physical health ;)