Why is Danny Masterson being compared to Charles Manson?

submitted by jerryk from (self.politics)

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[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Perhaps pointing out that he's in the same prison as Charles Manson is intended as more of a "fun fact" than a claim that he is in some way equivalent to Charles Manson.

Though it does seem that in Masterson's case, there was probably some organized cult activity - the CoS knew him to be a serial rapist, and they enabled him in every way possible because having celebrities on their side is so beneficial to them.

[–]jerryk[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

So, you're comparing the Church of Scientology to Charles Manson's Cult? Seriously?

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Well, the CoS is far worse and has killed far more people, but other than that it's a pretty fair comparison.

The CoS is a cult in its second stage, where the original founder has been replaced by a new charismatic leader. David Miscavige has taken total control over the lives of thousands of people, and he's ordered hits, covered up crimes, and even imprisoned his wife in an underground bunker.

[–]jerryk[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Well, if it's so bad, why don't the authorities just shut it down? What's stopping them, exactly?

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Organized crime takes a long time to dismantle when no one is talking. People are innocent until proven guilty, and it's hard to prove people guilty when all the witnesses are cultists who consider the police to be nearly-subhuman "Suppressive Persons."

[–]jerryk[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Do you consider the entire Catholic Church to be a "cult" too?

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Not anymore, no. There are several steps on the path from cult to religion.

First, you have the Stage 1 cult. That's where a charismatic leader takes control over other people's lives with a combination of supernatural promises and giving them a sense of community and belonging.

In Christianity, that's the stage where you've got Yeshua running around with his twelve followers, smashing up temples and hitting moneychangers with whips until everyone was like "Fuck this, we've got to kill this guy."

Then after that stage, there is often a second charismatic leader who steps into the void and takes control of the cult and grows its power and influence, with the original cult leader fading into a semi-legendary figure.

In LDS, that second leader is Brigham Young. In Christianity, it's Saul of Tarsus. In Scientology, it's David Miscavige.

After the second stage of the cult, there might be yet another turnover in single-person leadership, but eventually the beliefs have become too formalized and the group has become too large for any one person to dominate it. And so power is turned over to a religious bureaucracy. Churches, groups of priests, a heirarchy of steps between the ordinary believer and the people running the organization.

At that point, you've moved from cult to religion. And for the Catholic Church, that point took place somewhere between 65 CE (the death of Saul of Tarsus) and 325 CE (the First Council of Nicaea).

[–]jerryk[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

But, the Catholic Church still systematically protects its members from accusations of sexual impropriety, far more so than the Church of Scientology does.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"Far more"? I don't think so. I mean, in absolute numbers, it's surely true, because there are an estimated 35,000 Catholics for every Scientologist.

But in relative, per-capita numbers? I very much doubt it. The Catholic Church is a generally honorable institution with some corruption problems. The Church of Scientology is a criminal organization.

[–]jerryk[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I guess, having read a good deal of L. Ron Hubbard, and found him to be a rather interesting writer, I do feel a bit skeptical about the notion that the Church of Scientology is simply a criminal organization. Dianetics sounds like a plausible form of psychotherapy, although I've never tried it. There are bad apples in every barrel. Simply saying that a few Scientologists have been accused of crimes really doesn't convince me of much. Particularly "sex crimes", which, as George Orwell warns us in 1984, are very prone to being used as a source of power by corrupt governments, since sexuality is simply a part of human nature.

[–]LordoftheFlies 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What's stopping them, exactly?

The CoS supposedly--I use that word because they work hard to obfuscate their actions and the truth behind them--has a shit ton of dirt on various politicians as a result of intelligence gathering efforts done by them. Between that and the money that they can get from their (mostly) very wealthy upper-tier members, it gives a pretty serious amount of reach and control over efforts to shutdown any meaningful action against them.