Ukrainian Ambassador freaks out, telling Elon Musk to ‘F– Off’ after he catually outlines the obvious fair and honest way to peace with Russia on Twitter, without the fake dog-and-pony show

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[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

America gives gibs to single mothers, illegal immigrants and corporations. That's what socialists countries do. Also, American universities are promoting socialism.

This is not inaccurate, but theres a bit more nuance to this.

The word socialism has been 'redefined' from an ideology that is a type of communism with public workers and public ownership of means of production, to a type of capitalism, that leaves private capital ownership and the market economy in place, but uses heavy progressive taxation to provide a strong and expensive social safety net. The Scandinavian countries would be a good example of this type of economy, and for better or worse, seems to be what some on the left are angling for (Bernie Sanders advocates for these kind of policies). Many on the left are not though, people like Biden want nothing to do with policies like Universal Health Care and other neo-socialist policies, because the insurance companies give them tons of money

[–]RedEyedWarriorIndependent 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You could argue that the Scandinavian countries are socialist. After all, you have world class healthcare and education provided by the government. Of course, their leaders do not consider their countries socialist in the truest sense. There are free markets in a lot of areas, so it’s easy to do business compared to America. In fact, their markets are freer than America. More expensive because of higher taxes and operating expenses, sure, but less rules to follow. Also, there are no minimum wage laws in those countries. In a way, the Nordic countries are very capitalist, even if they are considered socialist.

I do get your point. Communism and socialism are not necessarily the same. Something I forget time to time. I guess what makes socialism work in the Nordic countries is the fact that it is used for the benefit of the people, whereas in the US only corporations benefit from socialism because American politicians would rather bail out banks and corporations than give back money to the states so that the states can provide healthcare and education.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yes, its unfortunate that 'socialism' has a rather ambiguous meaning nowadays. I'm not sure how well the Scandinavian model would work here either. It seemed to work well in Scandinavia when the population was very homogenous - they don't mind being generous to their own. The influx of immigrants that do not assimilate culturally, commit crimes at higher rates, and use up a lot of those social services are now causing some very serious backlash against these policies. Americans are so racially diverse and fragmented by identity groups, that this seems like a recipe for much civil unrest, even though the liberal part of me likes the idea of reducing inequality and poverty and doesn't mind making the rich pay more of a share

[–]RedEyedWarriorIndependent 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The Nordic countries are small and homogeneous. Denmark has strict immigration laws, and Sweden will soon because there’s been a backlash against immigration over there. You also have to pay a lot of taxes, which is fine if you know where your taxes are going and they are going into projects that benefit you. The most important thing is having a high trust society, which is essential in order for the Nordic model to work. And which no longer exists in America.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think you hit the nail on the head.

I appreciate your take, you are one of the users I enjoy having conversations with even when we don't see as eye to eye as we seem to on this. It's nice to be able to have nuanced discussions about complex issues with people who aren't from the same exact ideological place. I think this is something thats missing from our society lately, and really what I am looking for from sites like this

[–]RedEyedWarriorIndependent 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like talking to people of all political persuasions. I like to learn and grow, and I can only do that from learning why people might disagree with me. Also, there's no one-size-fits-all solution - what might work for one country won't work for another.