Teacher Suspended After Saying George Floyd Would be Alive If He Complied

submitted by scrubking from (toddstarnes.com)

all 72 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, he’d still be dead from a speed ball.

Its such a tragedy when a psychopath who shoved guns in pregnant womens’ stomachs and threatened to shoot their baby dies like this. A guy who didn’t even know his own children.

Thank goodness that working tax payers who were already supporting his kids get to pay them 27 gazillion dollars now. Im sure their top shelf genetics will ensure they are spectacular members of society.

[–]GConly 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (42 children)

Technically I think the huge dose of fentanyl he swallowed that caused his lungs to develop a fatal case of edema would have killed him anyway.

[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (41 children)

There was a court case about that.

The findings were that he didn't have enough fentanyl to kill him, and that the cause of death was murder by neck compression causing asphyxia and cardiopulmonary arrest.

The jury saw a lot of evidence about that and were unanimous.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The court case is in the process of being overturned due to a jury member being an admitted activist and the jury as a whole being intimidated by terrorists force a conviction.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I suspect that you're wrong about that.

But certainly the defence is obligated to request a new trial. They might get a Schwartz hearing, but I've heard informed opinion that none of the issues raised are close to egregious enough to warrant impeaching the verdict.

But time will tell.

[–]ReeferMadness 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The jury was corrupt from the beginning. There were literally political activists on the jury, on record saying we should use the jury for political agendas. This was never about the evidence, not that the "evidence" in a kangaroo court is worth anything to begin with.

They literally convicted him of murder, which requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it was intentional. No reasonable person thinks it was intentional, let alone is there any evidence at all for it. That conviction proves the trial was a sham, and the court corrupt.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The jury was corrupt from the beginning.

Really?

Because when a crime is recorded on video, it doesn't take a corrupt jury to convict.

There were literally political activists on the jury, on record saying we should use the jury for political agendas.

Were there?

If that is true, it's telling that the rest of the jury agreed with them.

They literally convicted him of murder, which requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it was intentional.

Minnesota is a bit quirky. None of the charges were intentional murder.

He was charged with second degree unintentional murder. That means he killed George while committing a felony. (Namely assault).

And he was charged with third degree murder. That means he caused George's death through an action that was "eminently dangerous", carried out with a reckless disregard for and conscious indifference to the loss of life.

And he was charged with second degree manslaughter. That means he caused George's death through culpable negligence that created an unreasonable risk.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Were there?

Yes, there were. And not only were there, but they committed a crime by lying about it during jury selection. This alone is enough for a mistrial to be declared. And when you factor in that the jury wasn't sequestered and had to walk through protests every day, and the fact that an elected politician made threats regarding the verdict, it's a no brainer what's going to happen. The trial was a failure on all levels.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, there were.

How many?

And not only were there, but they committed a crime by lying about it during jury selection.

Well, let me know when they're charged with perjury (or whatever the crime is).

This alone is enough for a mistrial to be declared.

A jury has 12 people, who have to be unanimous. The defence seems to be of the opinion that one or two people who are have a common political view isn't enough for a mistrial to be declared. The defence's request for a re-trial states that while none of their issues are sufficient to get a mistrial, they're were several smaller issues, and they're asking if they add up to one big one.

So maybe you should write to them and explain that they had a stronger argument.

Andrew Torrez breaks down the filing for a new trial in this episode of opening arguments starting at 19:38 in.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Because when a crime is recorded on video, it doesn't take a corrupt jury to convict.

There was no crime recorded except George Floyd’s crime of passing counterfit money and resisting arrest.

No one would bat an eye if this was a white scum bag. Certainly not me. This country needs to stop making excuses for bad peopl because they are black.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There was no crime recorded except George Floyd’s crime of passing counterfit money and resisting arrest.

It turns out kneeling on someones neck (and compressing their chest against the pavement) for nine and a half minutes, and for 2 minutes after they lose consciousness is a crime. If they die, it tuns out the crimes are second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

Not surprising since murder is a crime.

No one would bat an eye if this was a white scum bag.

I would find the video hard to watch if it was anyone. But certainly against a background of white officers using force towards black people disproportionately, a lot of people were hoping that eventually one of them would be found guilty. It turns out having a video of the murder is what you need.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It turns out kneeling on someones neck (and compressing their chest against the pavement) for nine and a half minutes, and for 2 minutes after they lose consciousness is a crime. If they die, it tuns out the crimes are second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

No it isn’t not if the autopsy shows the cop did not use enough force to block the airway. The autopsy was pretty specific and you should read it. Its not a crime to pin someone on the ground who is resisting arrest. Its not the liability of the officer if a criminal ODs while he is applying reasonable force.

But certainly against a background of white officers using force towards black people disproportionately ,

This is a racist trope which is false and just shows that you can not be objective about this incident. It is not the fault of Derek Chauvin or other whites that blacks like GF, or Mak’iyah Bryant or Ahmad Arbery commit crimes at much higher rates than whites.

Blacks are always going to commit more crimes than whites and have more confrontations with cops, as long as murder, assault, and theft are against the law. You can’t fix that problem with anti-racism and ending white privilege. White privilege is the genetic predisposition not to be violent and not steal, relative to blacks. Its really not anyone’s fault. It has to do with 70,000 years of evolutionary divergence.

Look, I know that about 99% of the muggings in America are commited by blacks and that the majority of the victims are whites. But I don’t burn down other people’s buildings over that. I dont demand hate crime legislation be cited against a black man every time he beats up an old white lady.

Blacks have more confrontations with cops because blacks commit more crimes. You know that. I know that. Even black people know that.

Look at the ridiculous reactions they had to the cop that shot that girl about to stab another black person. I think some of the interlocutors in this debate have lost all reason.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No it isn’t not if the autopsy shows the cop did not use enough force to block the airway.

Okay, you're going to have to point out the part of the autopsy report that says that.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a racist trope which is false and just shows that you can not be objective about this incident.

Look at the chart. Yes, black cops use their guns slightly more than white cops as an area gets a higher proportion of blacks. That's likely to be related in the increased violent crime in those areas.

But white cops are (on average) just shooting at or around black people for some other reason.

It is not the fault of Derek Chauvin or other whites that blacks like GF, or Mak’iyah Bryant or Ahmad Arbery commit crimes at much higher rates than whites.

The problem stems form the greater force used against blacks than whites when the other circumstances are the same.

Look, I know that about 99% of the muggings in America are commited by blacks [...]

About 52.7% in 2019.

[...] and that the majority of the victims are whites.

I can only find 20 year old data on that. But certainly most robbery victims in the US are white. (As are most people). But white people who were mugged by a single offender were more likely to be mugged by another white person than a black person. (About 40% of robberies and about 54% of robberies with white victims had a white robber).

Blacks have more confrontations with cops because blacks commit more crimes. You know that. I know that. Even black people know that.

And yet they proportion of those that involve being killed is still higher.

I think some of the interlocutors in this debate have lost all reason.

Certainly they've lost perspective.

[–]ReeferMadness 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because when a crime is recorded on video,

There are thousands of videos exactly like that one, of officers making arrests and using these exact tactics because that is literally what they are trained to do. None of those other incidents are claimed tlo be crimes because it has nothing to do with what is on video and everything to do with the racist agenda of those in power. I have no doubt that you are a political hack yourself and would absolutely not stand by that assessment in any of the cases where it is a black officer using those tactics.

it's telling that the rest of the jury agreed with them.

All kangaroo courts have 12 jurors, that doesn't mean the verdicts are somehow correct or just.

That means he killed George while committing a felony.

It was his drug dealer that was breaking the law at the time and he is the one who should be charged with murder. The fact that he hasn't been charged is just further proof of corruption.

[–]SaidOverRed 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

unanimous in begging to not have their families killed by BLM

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Unanimous in finding Chauvin guilty second-degree murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

Because he murdered George Floyd.

[–]wristaction 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

No. The prosecution's eXpErT medical witnesses testified that meth and fent cancel each other out and that his arteries were so occluded that he was impervious somehow. They ought to lose their licenses to practice.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I can't find where a witness said that. The meth levels were low. The fent levels were high, but not for an addict. The video of the murder showed a man being unable to breathe, not a man having an overdose. There were traces of THC too.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The meth levels were low because they were bottoming out. Thats why speed balls are so dangerous. The half life of the meth is shorter than the fentanyl. The stimulant that is artificially counteracting the fentanyl overdose goes away, and the CNS shuts down.

The fent levels were high, but not for an addict.

His tolerance on that given day is pure speculation. Was he using daily? Weekly? Had he taken a month off? You don’t know. Remember reasonable doubt? Is there are reasonable doubt that this was a fatal dose? I think so.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

His tolerance on that given day is pure speculation. Was he using daily? Weekly? Had he taken a month off? You don’t know.

The Jury had a better idea than me. They heard from witnesses that spoke about his opiate addiction.

And they heard from expert medical witnesses analysing the video, where you could see George going through the phases of suffocation as increasingly wider ranges of his muscles were co-opted to try to get air into his lungs. When he lost consciousness his fists were clenched, which is the final stages of that. People who die of an opioid overdose are relaxed, and not aware of their suffocation.

So we've got a pretty good idea of what killed him. And that calibrates what we know about how much fentanyl he could take. Corroborating evidence from his girlfriend.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The Jury had a better idea than me

The jury had an average IQ of about 90 optimistically and they certainly don’t define reality. There should never have been an indictment. Its just another thuggish attempt to terrorize whites by the people running this shit show. Chauvin was a law abiding cop trying to do his job. Floyd was demonstrably a psychopath.

phases of suffocation

In what phase of suffocation is the oxygenation level in the bloodstream 98%. It was medically established at the trial that he had 98% blood oxygen saturation at the trial.

When he lost consciousness his fists were clenched, which is the final stages of that.

Its also the final stages of resisting arrest before you OD on a speedball with 98% oxygenation

Corroborating evidence from his girlfriend.

Oh well she seems like a reliable lady.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The jury had an average IQ of about 90 optimistically and they certainly don’t define reality.

Jurys are what they are. When the court decides that Chauvin is guilty of murder you can say "murderer" instead of "Alleged murderer". So in terms of how we can talk about it, it does define reality.

He's had his day in court.

In what phase of suffocation is the oxygenation level in the bloodstream 98%.

Pretty early on.

Chauvin was a law abiding cop trying to do his job.

Both wrong. He's an ex-cop. And he's a convicted murderer.

Floyd was demonstrably a psychopath.

Okay. You're going to have to demonstrate that for me.

Its also the final stages of resisting arrest before you OD on a speedball with 98% oxygenation

Nope. Quite different. There's no involuntary clenching. You just relax and drift off.

Oh well she seems like a reliable lady.

She knew about his opiate use.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Sometimes its hard to accept scientific evidence when it does not tell us what we want. But GF’s fentanyl levels were well within fatal range and he arrested because the meth levels drop first in a speed ball, leaving only the depressant effect of the opiate.

The coronor’s report specified no physical signs of choking or strangulation. None. Neck compression with a knee that cuts off an airway has tell-tale signs. That is science. It is sad that he killed himself but criminal blacks have to be arrested and should not be let out to roam the streets committing crime after crime as this man was.

The cop took reasonable actions to subdue a violent person 2x his size who was resisting arrest. Melanin is not an excuse for psychopathic behavior.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

But GF’s fentanyl levels were well within fatal range and he arrested because the meth levels drop first in a speed ball,

It was 50% lower than the levels found in the average overdose.

And the video showed someone going through the physical symptoms of suffocation, not overdose.

The coronor’s report specified no physical signs of choking or strangulation. None. Neck compression with a knee that cuts off an airway has tell-tale signs.

Nope.

By Monday, June 1, in the context of widespread political pressure, the public received two reports: the preliminary autopsy report commissioned by Floyd’s family by private doctors, and—shortly thereafter—a summary of the preliminary autopsy from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office. Both reports stated that the cause of Floyd’s death was homicide: death at the hands of another. - Scientific American blogs

The district attorney's charging documents in the case stated, "The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," but that was written prior to receiving the coroner's report. That was widely misinterpreted by the media.

Neck compression with a knee that cuts off an airway has tell-tale signs. That is science.

Not always: Asphyxia—suffocation—does not always demonstrate physical signs, as other physician groups have noted. - Same Scientific American blog

The cop took reasonable actions to subdue a violent person 2x his size who was resisting arrest

The jury heard evidence about that and found that the ex-cop took unreasonable actions. Which is crucial to the second-degree murder charge. They were unanimous about that.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

By Monday, June 1, in the context of widespread political pressure, the public received two reports: the preliminary autopsy report commissioned by Floyd’s family by private doctors, and—shortly thereafter—a summary of the preliminary autopsy from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office. Both reports stated that the cause of Floyd’s death was homicide: death at the hands of another.

This is not true. The Baden report was made by a coroner that never saw the body- he is a medical celebrity and a hired gun for lawyers.

The autopsy says nothing about evidence of homocide. Show me where the medical examiner finds evidence of injury from intentional or negligent force. This is the report.

https://interactive.kare11.com/pdfs/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf

No life-threatening injuries identified No facial, oral mucosal, or conjunctival petechiae No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures No chest wall soft tissue injuries, rib fractures (other than a single rib fracture from CPR), vertebral column injuries, or visceral injuries Incision and subcutaneous dissection of posterior and lateral neck, shoulders, back, flanks, and buttocks negative for occult trauma

NECK: Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature. The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact. The larynx is lined by intact mucosa. The thyroid is symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change. The tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries. The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage.

Please read this document. There is no remark anywhere in it of any finding consistent with trauma leading to death.

The district attorney's charging documents in the case stated, "The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," but that was written prior to receiving the coroner's report. That was widely misinterpreted by the media.

This sounds like shenanigans. Was there a second report they made the coroner file? Lemme guess, a few days after this one is filed and they give this poor coroner a talking to and say that in spite of total lack of evidence, he’ll have to change his story or an antifa terrorist cell will be at his house.

Im going to stick with the actual autopsy report. Actually if you do know of another secondary report filed by the examiner I am interested in reading it.

Not always: Asphyxia—suffocation—does not always demonstrate physical signs, as other physician groups have noted.

Fake. Petichiae and other physical markers are consider evidence. Trying to establish that there may be some freak occurance in which there are no physical manifestations of asphyxia reeks of politicization and certainly does not meet the rubric of “beyond a reasonably doubt”

SciAm is not a serious scientific magazine. I subscribed to it for many years when it was run by actual scientists but the oligarch that bought it destroyed it’s reputation. I wouldnt line the bird cage with it, it is a pseudo-science pop culture rag. It is better to link directly to sources that aren’t MSM hottakes.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Show me where the medical examiner finds evidence of injury from intentional or negligent force.

In the case title: "CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION"

The TL/DR is in the death certificate that the same doctor filed:

Note in particular, cause of death: CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION

Manner: Homicide.

Please read this document. There is no remark anywhere in it of any finding consistent with trauma leading to death.

That's because is was restraint and neck compression that lead to death, not trauma.

Fake. Petichiae and other physical markers are consider evidence. Trying to establish that there may be some freak occurance in which there are no physical manifestations of asphyxia reeks of politicization and certainly does not meet the rubric of “beyond a reasonably doubt”

Okay. Just pointing out what medical experts are saying. And I note that the jury would have heard a lot of that kind of evidence before reaching their unanimous conclusion that it was beyond a reasonable doubt that George was killed by Chauvin.

SciAm is not a serious scientific magazine.

They're a lot more serious and scientific than most, barring academic journals. And the author is a doctor.

But they've released some of the analysis from the trial too:

Some of it's pretty compelling.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HGijfVyfIw

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

That's because is was restraint and neck compression that lead to death, not trauma.

It doesn’t say anywhere that there was any evidence of neck compression anywhere in the autopsy. Thats not a finding. Thats the potential cause of death he is meant to investigate. It doesn’t establish anything.

It doesnt say restraint and neck compression lead to death. It says there’s a lack of evidence of any life threatening injuries. A lack of injuries to the neck. And 98% oxygenation. Plus a lethal concentration of fentanyl.

I think you just dont want to admit that all the evidence is pointing to GF dying of fentanyl while he was appropriately pinned to the ground by a much smaller cop while resisting arrest.

Sciam is scraping the bottom of the sci barrel. Its a sci turd. Strictly for the “I fucking love science” liberal arts major crowd. There is literally no worse science publication. What a shame they did to that magazine. They used to print their physics articles with the calculus included. Academic journals are going down hill for the same sort of reasons but you are far more likely to get unvarnished science there without the politics

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

It doesnt say restraint and neck compression lead to death. It says there’s a lack of evidence of any life threatening injuries. A lack of injuries to the neck. And 98% oxygenation. Plus a lethal concentration of fentanyl.

You're misinterpreting the report. He's quite clear about it when he gives testimony. The cause of death was "CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION" and the manner was homicide.

He's also clear that the fentanyl and heart condition contributed to but were not the main cause of death

Sciam is scraping the bottom of the sci barrel. Its a sci turd. Strictly for the “I fucking love science” liberal arts major crowd. There is literally no worse science publication.

Do you have a problem with all the publications under the control of Nature Publishing Group?

If you don't like the opinion of the three medical professionals who wrote the blog, I would be more swayed by a refutation of those opinions than by claiming that you have issues with the URL that hosts it.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The coronor admited that he had to revise his analysis. They leaned on him. He was quite clear in the initial coronors report.

How do you explain 98% oxygenation? How do explain no evidence of choking or strangulation. Like no petichial hemmoraging? And he just happen to have potentially lethal amounts of speed ball cocktail.

Maybe youve heard of reasonable doubt. I could drive a truck through this case. This is just the new “crucible” . Its a which hunt for “racists”under every bed. GF was pinned to control him after he resisted arrest for 10 minutes. And then he died on the pavement from a speed ball. And seriously good riddance, he went around shoving guns in to pregnant woman’s stomachs and threatening to shoot their babies. GF was a bad dude and a heroin addict who killed himself accidently while commiting 3 simulaneous crimes.

Yeah I do have a problem with Nature. I think they are controlled by some shadey oligarchs. Medical/scientific journal industry is a corrupt oligarchy. But I have a particular problem with Sci Am, the last two editors are absolute turds. Sci Am is so spectaculary anti-science now its not even funny. I subbed to it for 20+ years. I watched it go down hill.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The coronor admited that he had to revise his analysis. They leaned on him. He was quite clear in the initial coronors report.

Well it is titled "CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION", same as the death certificate. So I agree that it's quite clear.

How do you explain 98% oxygenation?

You're talking about Dr. Tobin's testimony refuting the defence's claim that carbon monoxide poisoning could have contributed to George's death?

Dr Tobin isn't a coroner.

Maybe youve heard of reasonable doubt. I could drive a truck through this case.

The jury followed all the evidence more closely than you or I. And the found the charges with the "beyond reasonable doubt" burden to have been proven to that standard. Unanimously.

And then he died on the pavement from a speed ball.

That's inconsistent with his struggling to breathe. And inconsistent with what all the experts said about his fentanyl levels.

That's why the jury (and coroner) were confident in attributing the death to Chauvin's actions.

Yeah I do have a problem with Nature.

Okay. You're talking about the most prestigious general science journal on the planet, so I think most people would disagree with you there.

I think they are controlled by some shadey oligarchs.

Who? Frank Vrancken Peeters?

Sci Am is so spectaculary anti-science now its not even funny.

... such as ... not engaging in climate science denial and calling out Trump for being anti science?

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The findings were that he didn't have enough fentanyl to kill him,

Except that isn't what one of the autopsies stated. It stated that his lungs had such a severe case of edema that they'd have written his cause of death off as a fentanyl OD if he'd been found dead with no witnesses.

And expect a retrial soon. One of the jurors was a BLM supporter who concealed his activism, and pressure to find Chauvin guilty no matter what was very high. One of the alts has admitted to being afraid of what would happen.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Okay. You're going to have to link me to this autopsy. Because I only know about the two that concluded homicide.

And you're going to have to link me to the motion for a retrial, because the only one I know about, which is online here doesn't mention BLM activism at all. Not even once.

Out of curiosity, where are you getting your information on this trial?

I worry that it's not closely related to the one that is happening in reality.

[–]GConly 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Out of curiosity, where are you getting your information on this trial?

Legal documents and lawyers dissecting the case and after trial aftermath. Some NYT articles and more.

Bakers notes

It turns out one of the jurors didn't mention he was heavily involved with BLM, when asked.

There's a photo of him with a 'get your knee off our necks' tee on and he went on a march. It's seriously raised the issue of a mistrial.

Here he is.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14893138/chauvin-juror-george-floyd-blm-shirt/

He was at a rally

https://www.insider.com/derek-chauvin-juror-attended-protest-blm-shirt-2021-5

NYT pointing puts this is a valid ground for a retrial.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/04/us/chauvin-trial-juror.html

I also watched all the video footage of the incident. Floyd was gasping for breath while seated upright in the car with no one on his neck before Chauvin knelt on him. So he was having pretty major issues with his lungs.

I'm sure having Chauvin kneel on him didn't help.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Are those notes from baker prior to the death certificate?

They don't contradict it, it's just less complete.

It turns out one of the jurors didn't mention he was heavily involved with BLM, when asked.

I was aware that he was asked how he felt about BLM, and I brought her said that if was a statement that he agreed with.

Was he asked if he was involved? What exactly was the question, and what was his response?

The sun article is says "Chauvin attorney Eric Nelson is using the shirt to argue that the landmark trial show be overturned in part due to misconduct by Mitchell." Which is either mostly or completely wrong.

Jury misconduct was mentioned in the filing, as one of about a dozen nitpicks. The nature of that misconduct isn't mentioned.

The times article states this correctly.

I believe that the charges stick if the kneeling wasn't the sole cause of death.

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The juror was untruthful on the questionnaire that asked about bias.. so yes that's going to be legit grounds for mistrial. As is the pre trial compensation payout.

There's a YouTube video where a lawyer goes through the details of what exactly what he did and why it's grounds for a mistrial.

I believe that the charges stick if the kneeling wasn't the sole cause of death.

And Floyd was having massive issues breathing before he got knelt on, and his lungs were so buggered by the edema that they'd have assumed that killed him if they'd only had the body to work . with.

As far as I'm concerned this doesn't meet the required standard for a murder conviction. You need to show that what happened (neck kneeling) killed him beyond a reasonable doubt. If you want to rule it contributed to his death because he was in a bad way, you could come up with a lesser charge and gave that stick. If it was something that could have killed him, you have to prove the kneeling and not the edema got him.

Being more than familiar with how expert witnesses bow to political or prosecutorial pressure I'm a little cynical to Baker's revised conclusion.

[–]Brewdabier 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hell I was downvoted to reddit purgatory for saying the exact same thing.

[–]ReeferMadness 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

In clown world speaking the truth is a crime.

[–]SaidOverRed 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength

[–]turtlew0rk 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (16 children)

Nobody on either side should be ok with this. This teacher is teaching children that police can kill you for complying to their demands.

[–]ReeferMadness 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

You are fucking insane. That teacher is teaching that the propaganda is bullshit. The cops are not out hunting black people. Black people who dont try to fight the cops have nothing to fear. That IS reality.

[–]turtlew0rk 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I didn't say any of that. I don't give a fuck about George Floyd one way or the other, I am not making a comment about race. I am saying police should not be shooting unarmed people. That SHOULD be reality.

[–]copenseethe 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I bet you are outraged about the police shooting of unarmed peaceful protester Ashley Babbit.

[–]turtlew0rk 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am

[–]ReeferMadness 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

This teacher is teaching children that police can kill you for complying to their demands.

You literally ARE saying this. You are spreading the propaganda that police are unjustly shooting people. That is NOT what is happening.

Police can not tell if criminals are armed. The very idea that they should make decisions based on a foreknowledge is absolutely insane. And that IS what you are demanding (whether you understand it or not) when you condemn them for shooting an unarmed criminal literally trying to fight them and potentially pulling a gun any second.

[–]turtlew0rk 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Well I guess if they cant tell if they are armed then I get it. Best to shoot them just in case. Makes sense.

[–]ReeferMadness 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Hur dur I don't have an argument so I'll just say something stupid and pretend that was your argument. Hur dur I so smart.

[–]turtlew0rk 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Are you a mindreader?

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Have you ever lived in a black neighborhood? Or are you from Narnia?

[–]turtlew0rk 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Is there a third option?

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes but Im leaning toward Narnia

[–]Smarterthanlastweek2 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

did you mean kill you for Not complying to their demands?

[–]turtlew0rk 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes! lol Thanks for pointing that out!

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

George Floyd didn’t comply with the police’s demands. And he killed himself with fentanyl and meth.

[–]turtlew0rk 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

IDGAF about George Floyd. I don't want teachers saying shit like this no matter what the circumstance.

[–]Sendnoodles 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Good. Teachers shouldn't be endorsing politics in the classroom no matter what side they're on. That's not their job.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I think its fine if teachers bring political views in to the discussion as long as the parents have choice about teachers.

Unfortunately the teachers in today’s public schools have been completely failing to educate and do nothing but inculcate leftist religious beliefs because the teachers’ credentialling system has become corrupt and overrun by fanatics.

Its time to end the public school system. Its simply an obstacle to a good education at this point.

[–]Sendnoodles 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Dude be quiet. You say idky by while schools taught creationism. You don't get to complain now.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I am an atheist evolutionist who believes that parents and not the state can educate children as they see fit as long as they are not traumatizing them with sexual or violent subject matter unsuitable for children.

If by “sat idly by”, you mean actively support their right to teach their kids scientifically untrue shit according to their religion, I do, because I don’t feel the need to puritanically micromanage other people’s parenting or religious beliefs.

They have a right to teach their kids that shit. Why would it negate my right to voice an opinion on the need to end public education? These teachers have abandon education in order to sexually groom children for gay pride parades. People can only take so much. Do you really support this shit? Its over.

Leftists should want to control their own schools because then they can teach all the anti-Evolution ideology they believe like racism is irrational and homosexuality isn’t a pathology. Like gender is a non-binary phenomenon that varies independently of sex.

Right wing christians are not the people destroying the objectivity of science and polluting it with their religion.

Who can’t seem to keep their retarded religion out of science? Who is using flimsy medical premises to perform genital mutilation on children and unstable young adults? The left has regressed to the level of rural Islamic Sudan.

The left has rolled back scientific inquiry to circa 1633 standards by burning everyone at the stake as a heretic for questioning their absurd religious pronouncements on the nature of reality from their marijuana induced reveries. Its not real because you saw it on deviantart.

Lets face it, public school teachers are not that smart and utterly irreplacable. They obviously can’t be trusted anymore. Kids are better off learning to read and write from mom anyway— we can fire public school teachers and keep our money.

Even the ones with lousy moms are better off being pig ignorant then endangered by public school sexual predators.

[–]Sendnoodles 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You are insanely dumb, and I don't believe a word you say. You just make up whatever you need to to try to lend credibility to yourself.

[–]InvoluntaryHalibut 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh come on public school teachers are not that smart and if they are going to insist on teaching children that girls have penises, then they need to be kept away from children.

I am insanely smart but this is just a case of common sense. Genital mutilation is wrong, especially when performed on the mentally ill and children.

[–]Danimal4NU 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd say it's not an either-or thing. You can have a problem with Chauvin while also recognizing the truth that things are WAY, WAY more likely to go bad when you resist arrest.

[–]divingrightintowork 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hope that teacher sues, and wins. What was the teacher supposed to do, lie?