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[–]quickbeam 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

There's nothing wrong with vote-by-mail. I lived in Oregon for a while where everyone can vote by mail (with some in-person for those who prefer it) and it works just fine. Also - some people chose to line up to pay respects to John Lewis, but I'm not planning to go anywhere crowded and inhale other people's germs. It's quite another thing to force people many of whom are medically vulnerable to go out and risk their health or lose their voice in a democracy. BTW - the exact same people are going to tabulate your votes whether they're done in person or by mail. The exact same hand-counters and/or machines. I've been a volunteer poll worker so I've seen the votes get counted firsthand.

[–][deleted]  (15 children)

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    [–]quickbeam 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

    If you're so worried about voter fraud I encourage you to contact your city clerk and become a poll worker. There are paying jobs or you can volunteer. Then you can go behind the scenes and see how the system works in your state. I bet you'll be amazed at what ordinary good-natured people are in charge of ensuring election integrity.

    [–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    There are over 40 ways to fix it. All you need is a chink in the armour somewhere. Most of it can be legit as hell, but all you need is enough to be compromised. The worst is at the top - just like in politics.

    [–][deleted]  (12 children)

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      [–]quickbeam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

      LOL. No, sorry. I'm not interested in voter fraud because it almost never happens. I am interested in election fraud, which is a huge concern especially in terms of voting machines. But as there is very little I have the power to do about it, I try not to lose sleep over it.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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        [–]quickbeam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        Electronic voting is too is the only thing you needed to say here, though, because every damn vote goes through that system and if you are a person at a high level trying to impact the vote (not some two-bit city council candidate trying to steal their own election) that's the method you use in this day and age. You say "removing boxes" like it's a simple thing that doesn't require coordination. And guess what - you can also remove boxes of votes of people who voted in person! Sometimes you can't even tabulate those votes the day of polling because the machines malfunction. It's overwhelmingly Republicans who have been fucking over votes in recent years though by closing polling stations in key areas and leaving low income or majority minority communities without enough polling stations so that working people have to choose between getting back to their job or standing in line for 5+ hours. Or sometimes so they can't actually get transportation to a close enough polling station. But you guys want to focus on these rare as hell cases of people using ridiculously clunky 20th century methods to steal elections that no one in a real position of power would ever resort to.

        [–]scrubking[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        [–]quickbeam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        There's a reason these people got caught - they were all ham-handed schemes that are noticed by the city clerks and poll workers that cross-check documents and check for things like people voting twice. If you want to commit mass election fraud - the type that would affect a national election, you'd hack the voting machines. Paper ballots - and people casting multiple paper ballots or false paper ballots - is the easiest thing to catch and check for.

        [–]quickbeam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

        Again, please go work a poll. I encourage you to do so. You can see how the sausage is made. You can be the watchdog on the front lines of all this voter fraud you think is happening.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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          [–]quickbeam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

          LOL. I'm naive says the person who thinks the electronic voting machines are more reliable. https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-a-data-security-expert-fears-u-s-voting-will-be-hacked-11587747159 https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-vulnerabilities-of-our-voting-machines/ https://thefulcrum.us/voting/hacking-voting-machines

          It is so much harder to falsify hundreds of paper documents or disappear thousands of ballots. One person can't do it on their own; they would need help. The more people you involve in any type of conspiracy/crime the easier it is for them to get caught. Whereas with hacking the voting machines one person can do it and it can be done without leaving a trace. We'd all be better off if paper votes were counted by hand by old church ladies and it took weeks to get final results.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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            [–]quickbeam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            You are acting as if mail-in ballots are the thing we ought to be worried about when it comes to mass election fraud when the real vulnerable spot where you could change results without a trace are the machines. I'm not naive or uninformed; I've actually worked the polls which I've mentioned repeatedly. It seems like you just want to remain panicked about this much less likely scenario out of what I can only assume is partisanship. Go work the polls if you care so much - I'll repeat it again. It's not hard to get those jobs - they're actually asking younger people to take them.