Fuck Vulptex and fuck SaidIt

submitted by fschmidt from (self.nonmorons)

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[–]Vulptex 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (26 children)

I'm very sorry, but if saidit allowed advocating violence it could be shut down. Saying things like "I would be a mass shooter if it were legal" could get both you and saidit in legal trouble.

If you remove the calls to death and violence I or another admin can re-approve those posts.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]Vulptex 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

    With these matters yes, unfortunately it has to be like r/WatchRedditDie when we were desperately trying not to get banned. With a few rules saidit is in a similar situation due to the server hosting company's TOS. saidit had to ban s/Ice_Poseidon, so it's already come close to trouble in the past. And remember how Ruqqus got banned from Heroku. Saidit can be lax with its own rules but not those of its authorities.

    [–][deleted]  (7 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Vulptex 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

      He must have said "modern scum should die" 100 times, and made it clear that the only thing holding him back from exterminating them is the fact that he would go to jail for it. He also said he supports the COVID vaccine because it will kill off all the people who are stupid enough to take it, that the judge of the Alex Jones trial should be lynched, that a major city should be nuked, and that he wants to be a mass shooter. That's not advocating violence?

      [–]wrongthink 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

      and made it clear that the only thing holding him back from exterminating them is the fact that he would go to jail for it.

      That's what it means to be "law abiding"

      [–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      He still advocated it, and a few times even said he would do it.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]Vulptex 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

        And saidit is usually as lax as possible with its own rules. But when it comes to the server hosting platform's rules there's no wiggle room.

        Even if saidit hosted itself, the domain registrar could have it taken down. magnora would have to register with ICANN directly, and although it's dirt cheap (something like 5 cents per year I think), apparently you need a ton of insurance for it which a registrar provides for you.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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          [–]Vulptex 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          I can't argue about what should or shouldn't be. I don't make the rules. Even magnora probably only does so because otherwise the hosting company and threat of lawsuits makes him. This is a very real threat, /s/Ice_Poseidon had to be banned because of this. So saidit needs to err on the side of caution in these cases. Usually admins do not remove something unless they are 100% positive it breaks the rules, things like this where the site itself could get in trouble if they're not taken down are the only exception. You can ask magnora for a final opinion, but he's always removed these posts which is why I did so.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]Vulptex 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

            u/magnora7 has always removed this, including one of fschmidt's recent posts, and my explanation is only the one he gives for it. If you have an issue with this talk to him, I don't make the rules.

            [–]fschmidt[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

            That's simply a lie. Look up the law.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action

            https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/inciting-to-riot-violence-or-insurrection.html

            [–]Vulptex 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

            Here's the Ice_Poseidon ban: https://saidit.net/s/ice_poseidon

            This sub has been banned because it repeatedly breaks our server company's Acceptable Use Policy, and so we have been forced to shut it down by our server company. It broke the AUP because it repeatedly featured harassment, doxxing, violence, and other types of content. As such, the community has been forced to be closed on saidit and theIP2network has now relocated to the .win network

            [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

            You are right, what you said clearly doesn't meet the bar for being illegal speech, and is protected. However, this kind of speech has always been banned on saidit. I would point out that u/socks did not just have his post removed, he had his account banned for a very similar post that also did not the bar for being illegal.

            This is a magnora issue, vupltex is actually one of the more permissive moderators when it comes to enforcing magnoras draconian bullshit

            [–]Vulptex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

            I've never had a problem with magnora, the only thing I'm skeptical of is the "dragging down the pyramid of debate" rule, especially because it's subjective. Everything else is pretty much just trying to keep the site online.

            [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

            I've never had a problem with magnora, the only thing I'm skeptical of is the "dragging down the pyramid of debate" rule

            This. He uses this to remove content that he doesn't like that otherwise doesn't break any of saidit's rules. He even applies this to a post itself, which technically is impossible when there isnt any debate or discussion happening on the post. If magnora doesn't want posts about yogurt or penises, he needs to make it a fucking rule and stop removing my posts and banning my accounts for imaginary infractions

            Meanwhile, there is tons of actualy debate dragging down happening. Many many users of this site only respond with ad hominems and personal attacks, but these actual violations are never enforced

            [–]Vulptex 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

            I can believe it, but I rarely ever see it happen.

            [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

            Soundsitutation and magnora have removed hundreds of my posts, and banned at least 20 of my yogurt themed accounts. This is my 3rd main account after u/antarchomachus and u/jackalope were banned

            [–]grassfed 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

            I helped jackalope getting banned, his whining about me didn't help because saiditors can smell your bullshit

            [–]socks-the-nigger 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

            Good

            [–]Vulptex 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

            Maybe they considered it spam? That sounds a bit overreaching to me, but if magnora feels differently neither me nor soundsituation nor anyone else is in a position to override him. But at least he doesn't censor ideas, at least not that I've seen.

            [–]grassfed 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

            Not only does he spam but he only posts about poop and childish stuff. Many saidittors are tired of him. Ask for vote from the community maybe and you will see. Cc u/jasoncarswell

            [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

            Did you consider litigation and these alike ?

            I'm no lawyer but some of my recent time is consumed with considering and weighting different risk-models for the money we'll put into some projects.

            And if saidit is sued for stuff that alike it could meet a really sad end for no "real" reason whatsoever.

            So i "side" with Vulptex on this one, fyi.

            [–]Vulptex 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

            These days you have to be very careful, you have to err on the side of caution in these matters or they could still try to bring you down like reddit twists their rules. And it's not just the law saidit has to worry about, it's also domain registrars and (maybe) server hosters. They were forced to ban Ice_Poisedon because of this.

            [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Vulp i've always found you to be reasonable as mod and not heavy handed. Kudos for explaining the problem with his post and offering a means of resolution, I would be thrilled if certain other mods were this transparent and reasonable