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[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

Doing esoteric debates about philosophy and the true will of Marx and if the Bolsheviks were real Marxists is a waste of time. No one gives a shit about these things.

The modern left doesn't get their talking points from Marx, they get it from Netflix. And Netflix and Hollywood get their cultural orders from the CFR and the CIA.

Don't be like Keith. Don't be a theorycel. Focus instead on the power structure that's destroying the West, how it functions, and solutions on how to defeat it.

Get mired up in theory and you start losing brain cells.

"The primary mover of history is liberalism" - Keith Woods, a man paid money to teach people about politics.

[–]NeoRail 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

As far as I am aware, Haz and Logo claim to be old school Marxists, not modern leftists.

Focus instead on the power structure that's destroying the West, how it functions, and solutions on how to defeat it.

That's precisely what theory is.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

old school Marxists, not modern leftists

No difference. One of the worst cons pulled by the modern left and eagerly gulped by marxnat idiots is the notion of the good old leftist. He was based, a champion of the working class who wanted a better life for the working class.

In reality, the old communists were the ones who spearheaded the feminist movement. They legalized abortion in the USSR. Trotsky invented the term racist. The USSR passed the world's first hate speech laws. During the cold war, ''old school marxists'' spearheaded the push for desegregation, the end of apartheid, quotas for minorities and sexual liberation. Lenin and the Bolsheviks were a strong advocate of free sex as well.

Lenin also decriminalized homosexuality in the USSR. There is nothing the modern leftist does that would've been disapproved by Lenin. And just like leftists today, the bolsheviks were mostly malcontent children of the upper middle class and they too were financed by big capital just like AOC and the young turks.

The Bolsheviks were financed by Jacob Schiff of Kuhn Loeb and Max Warburg. The USSR was industrialized by American capital. Stalin noted in 1945 that 90% of Soviet industry had been build with US assistance.

[–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

No difference. One of the worst cons pulled by the modern left and eagerly gulped by marxnat idiots is the notion of the good old leftist. He was based, a champion of the working class who wanted a better life for the working class.

You are wrong. The "good old leftist" was not a "based champion of the working class". The "good old leftist" was working class himself. Leftist intellectuals have always been progressive cosmopolitans. The actual leftist workers however are a completely different story.

There is nothing the modern leftist does that would've been disapproved by Lenin.

You are blatantly wrong about this. I am not saying that Lenin was a good guy or that he was "based", but he was extremely opinionated and demanding in regard to left wing politics.

I should also note that no one has pointed at the Old Bolsheviks as exemplary moral and political figures. It is typically the Stalinist and post-Stalinist model that people engage with.

Stalin noted in 1945 that 90% of Soviet industry had been build with US assistance.

This sounds like it's complete bullshit, so you're either flatly wrong or you are using a definition of the word "assistance" that is basically worthless. Elaborate on this and give me your sources, please.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

If you're making a distinction between the leftist intellectual and the leftist voter, then you are right. Their voters were generally working-class yokels who got duped. But Logo and Haz would fall under the criteria of intellectuals as they push the ideology.

What part of the left do you think Lenin would not approve of? He was very anti-white and anti-christian himself. He would fully approve of most of what the left is doing down to the sexual degeneracy and censorship which he himself pushed. I guess he might be repulsed by trannies but that's it.

https://capx.co/soviet-communism-was-dependent-on-western-technology/

https://www.americanheritage.com/how-america-helped-build-soviet-machine

http://exiledonline.com/a-peoples-history-of-koch-industries-how-stalin-funded-the-tea-party-movement/

[–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

But Logo and Haz would fall under the criteria of intellectuals as they push the ideology.

I am not too familiar with either of them. From what I have seen, Logo seems to be a typical example of a vapid "intellectual". Haz seems intelligent and practically minded, though.

What part of the left do you think Lenin would not approve of? He was very anti-white and anti-christian himself. He would fully approve of most of what the left is doing down to the sexual degeneracy and censorship which he himself pushed.

In theory he would support all of the different types of "liberation", but he would definitely disapprove of the entire practical aspect of leftism today. Absolutely everything, from the people, groups, their ideas, the institutions they control and so on. Lenin believed in "scientific historical materialism", dual power and disciplined anti-state positions. The leftism of today is, instead, completely reactionary (in the literal meaning of the term), emotional-moral, anarchistic, riotous and uncontrolled. Rather than a determined vanguard, the left today consist in a bunch of servile, lumpen state collaborators.

As to your sources, I honestly did not expect that you would direct me to this libertarian nonsense. A lot of the stuff in that first article is ridiculous, stupid, unsubstantiated bullshit. The rest in all three articles - on which your point about industry is based - is technically correct but misleading. Yes, Western research, technology and design was involved in the production processes of the Soviet state, as it would be involved in the production processes of any state. The only alternative would be an insane autarchic mania. If we take that as our standard, then we could reasonably say that "100% of Japanese industry was built with Western assistance". That would be a technically correct assertion to make, but it would be profoundly misleading. I am disappointed that I had to waste my time looking at literal propaganda instead of genuine information about Soviet industry.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrialization_in_the_Soviet_Union#Use_of_foreign_specialists

February 1930, between Amtorg and Albert Kahn, Inc., a firm of American architect Albert Kahn, an agreement was signed, according to which Kahn's firm became the chief consultant of the Soviet government on industrial construction and received a package of orders for the construction of industrial enterprises worth $2 billion (about $250 billion in prices of our time). This company has provided construction of more than 500 industrial facilities in the Soviet Union.

Is this convincing enough?

https://www.jstor.org/stable/126832

The Bolsheviks killed the old Russian intelligentsia and the remainder fled to the West. The Soviets simply didn't have the technical knowledge to build a modern industrial state. Without American engineers and technicians building machinery for them, teaching them how to operate it, and transferring technology, the USSR could never have industrialized.

Here's an article from the New York Times in 1930 showing American assistance in building up Soviet industry.

https://www.nytimes.com/1930/11/30/archives/44-american-firms-are-aiding-soviet-list-of-those-working-on.html

Before Communism Russia was the world's second-largest exporter of food. After communism, it became a land of perpetual starvation and poverty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_United_States%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_wheat_deal

Without grain imports from the US, the Soviets would've collapsed far earlier. The Western elites were always highly sympathetic to communism. It's not a coincidence that Marxist thinkers were taught at elite US universities since the end of WW2. Roosevelt's admin was full of flagrant Soviet spies like Harry Hopkins and Harry Dexter White.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White#Assessments_of_Soviet_involvement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Hopkins#Relations_with_Soviet_Union

American and British capital built up Soviet industry. In 1942 the USSR was on the brink of collapse due to having lost its richest lands in Ukraine. Massive American aid kept Russia in the war and allowed her to triumph over Germany. The OSS also helped Mao win in China and David Rockefeller set up Chase bank in red China.

Communism was and still is an attack dog that was loosened by western capital against hostile regimes that would not allow anglo-American finance to plunder their lands. The cold war was not owed to any ideological differences with the USSR. There were no sanctions on the USSR until the 1980s when Reagan's neocons imposed sanctions for invading Afghanistan.

It was simply a matter of containing an Empire that had grown too big for comfort. The Soviets rejected the Baruch plan and thus set back the agenda of world government. This led to the US adopting a policy of containment against the Soviets.

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am not rejecting your point. I am rejecting the meaning you assign to it. Yes, the Soviets made use of Western technology, Western experts and Western research. This does not even remotely equate "90% of Soviet industry" being built with US assistance. I assume that you meant Western rather than American here, since that's what your sources refer to.

The Americans did not build 90% of Soviet industry for free, out of the kindness of their hearts. This is nonsense. If you hire a foreign company to improve the productive facilities of your country then that does technically count as "assistance", yes, but it is misleading, because we are talking about business, not about some bleeding-heart foreign aid project. You are not even considering the implications of what it would mean for the USSR to construct its industry without using Western methods in the early 20th century. We're talking about basic, vital technologies for the extraction, refinement and use of raw materials. You wouldn't even be able to build a single factory without this type of Western "assistance", because the method for producing the steel you need relies on innovations from various Western nation-states. This is why I mentioned that by this standard, you could claim that "100% of Japanese industry was built with Western assistance". Without the knowledge to produce modern roads, steel, building materials and so on the very idea of Japanese industry is inconceivable. But to say that "100% of Japanese industry was built with Western assistance" would be profoundly misleading, because the Japanese still had to organise the creation of their industry, pay for the necessary expertise, then provide the funds, materials and labour necessary to complete their projects - just like the Soviets.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

it seems odd that we aided USSR at the same time as demonizing the commies during the red scare. Almost like the cold war was phony. That's the point. Not same as Japan, everyone knows we conquered them in WWII and set up permanent bases and no one denies we have aided them since.

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I am talking about pre-1945 in both cases.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yep tho we aided them before and after that

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

stalin didn't say that, anthony summers did, USA funded USSR.

[–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lenin and the Bolsheviks were a strong advocate of free sex as well

Leftists were always bad but this is false. They were against the nuclear family but not for free love. Marxism gets more degenerate each generation. The Bolsheviks were already a degenerated version of Marxism and gave emphasis to things like racial justice and anti imperialism which original Communist writers showed little interest.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't be like Keith. Don't be a theorycel.

Oh boy, the irony.

Post some more dick pics.

[–][deleted]  (14 children)

[deleted]

    [–]NeoRail 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

    Most people don't care about what Evola, Nietzsche or Marx believed, about the metaphysical idealism-dualism-physicalism debate and the 'hard problem of consciousness', or most of anything else Keith mentions.

    "Most people" don't care about politics either and from among those who do, "most people" make zero impact. Politics is not a question of numbers, especially not of numbers at the expense of everything else. All three of the thinkers you mentioned make this very clear for their readers, in different ways.

    To win on the macro-level there needs to be a simplification of the message. Avoid speculation. Avoid unsourced claims whenever possible. Engage more with science and less with philosophy.

    All of these things have their place in political practice, but that's just half the picture. To simplify a message, first you need to have one. Similarly, philosophy is invaluable if it is done well. Something important that a lot of people miss these days is that science itself is based on and is a form of philosophy. Without understanding the implications of that, you will always be at a disadvantage when trying to use science, because you would be failing to understand the tool that you are trying to use. When people discuss the nature of consciousness, knowledge, epistemology etc. it isn't just something they do for the sake of it, it is done because these things are important and determine the entire content and direction behind the ideas humans rely on to make sense of the world.

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    To simplify a message, first you need to have one. Similarly, philosophy is invaluable if it is done well.

    Yep. The people who think the alt/dissident right today is 'too big brained' are hilarious. I'd love to see these guys tackling Hegel and Gentile; or Heidegger and Schmitt etc.

    The issue is actually the exact opposite, revolutionary nationalists back then actually read the newspapers, attended the speeches, read Mein Kampf and the other 30~ books on the NS reading list etc. The average member of a shirt movement in the 20s and 30s was well educated on politics and his own movement's struggle. The average alt/dissident righter today is just a conservatard that likes to say nigger, the reason we are unable to get anything done is because our ranks are either too stupid or too intellectually lazy to educate themselves and actually try to get anything done.

    The /r/BritishNationalism sub got banned but they exemplified this issue. They were all race realist, pro-white, most were jew aware to some extent. But all of them are basically just Churchill worshipping antifa neocon retards. They have successfully adopted the 'simplified' messaging of the alt right IE the form, with none of the substance.

    By the way, Stennes from reddit has translated Rudolf Jung's National Socialism book and is giving it away for free if you're interested.

    [–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    I think that stupidity wouldn't be an issue if there was an organisation with an intelligent strategy directing the efforts of all political forces, but especially today anti-system politics are the most individualist, decentralised and disorganised they have ever been. Consequently any increase in numbers or resources only translates into slightly louder whining.

    Thank you for mentioning the translation, I may take a look at it later. It's still hard to believe that most of the National Socialist material is not already translated.

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Yep, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation too. This hypothetical organisation can only come to exist once it has some funding, which is going to require many thousands of people to straighten up.

    Thank you for mentioning the translation, I may take a look at it later. It's still hard to believe that most of the National Socialist material is not already translated.

    Worse yet a lot of it is lost to history too

    [–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Worse yet a lot of it is lost to history too

    Do you have anything particular in mind?

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Nothing in particular, just random things you see referenced. Half of the reading list from here doesn't exist in English for example, I think a lot of it is lost even in German too.

    [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    but especially today anti-system politics are the most individualist, decentralised and disorganised they have ever been.

    That is an interesting point. The internet has increased levels of dissent from the current system and its ideology but the dissent is completely unorganized. Pre Internet if you wanted to engage with likeminded others you would have to form some type of group or organization to do so. An organized structure also results in superior leaders rising to the top.

    [–]EthnocratArcheofuturist[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    But you're just a midwit though. Caspar said it so it must be true. /S

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    It's worse than that, I'm two halfwits inside a big coat

    [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    The simplified message ends up just being shitposting and memeing which far out weighs the intellectual commentary on the Right. If anything it is the former holding us back. It is true the masses are not going to be interested in more complex discussions but that doesn't mean we should reject such things. Fostering a dissident academic and intellectual culture is important to cultivate or you'll never be able to challenge the ruling ideology and its institutions.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    "Something important that a lot of people miss these days is that science itself is based on and is a form of philosophy."

    Hard truth for many to accept, right here.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      However, I'm confident that humans will never make any major breakthrough in the remaining fields of philosophy and so they will remain philosophical indefinitely.

      You can't know that, you just decided that on your own. No wonder you think philosophy is a waste of time.

      Spending the last few decades we have pondering how to solve these problems just so that our enemies would benefit from the solutions if we hypothetically did is simply a foolish waste of time.

      Different people work on different things. It's not like every person with right wing inclinations would suddenly become a philosophy expert overnight and spend his time working on the problem of consciousness. Some people will work on the intellectual aspect of things, others would work on organisation etc. Moreover, you are overlooking something - the system is already benefitting from the lack of solutions. Nihilistic postmodernism is the ideology of 21st century capitalism. The whole point is that "nothing matters, you're just a clump of cells on a rock in space, consume the product and don't believe in anything". I myself am no believer in the ability of "pure philosophy" on its own to "solve" the crisis of nihilism, but every serious, intelligent person needs at least some form of philosophical approach to life. It is a basic necessity for intellectual life.

      I think, for example, that I have a pretty ingenious argument for refuting solipsism. I don't bother bringing it into the DR because there is too much of this as it is, all of which only occurs because we've been incapable of progress for decades. By this I mean that the only reason that we are scouring old books by Gentile et al. and fighting over interpretations of them, is precisely because we have not found a way into the halls of power. Literally all of this discussion would cease if we were in power tomorrow. We'd be far too busy deporting nuisances, imprisoning the old regime. We would simply forget about these books for a very long time.

      This is a forum for political discussion, not for discussion of philosophy. Philosophy is relevant only insofar as it ties into politics, but a very broad range of works can fall into this category. I also think that your position on philosophy here shows you lack principles. A person with political agency should be able to define himself not only in negative terms, against what he opposes, but also in positive terms of what he wants to create and establish.

      It is simply the result of hoping that within an old book an easy path is found to surpass an increasingly insurpassable wall.

      It is not about finding an easy path, it is about finding a path that works. The thing is that every aspect of political theory and practice have already been examined by extremely intelligent men over the past century. Trying to reinvent the wheel is not only needless, but also futile, because the people engaging with these problems today are simply far less intelligent and learned than the previous generation. The gap in the quality of analysis and strategy is almost unbelievable.

      We have no need for remaining an intellectual elite because elites that do not convince masses can never hold power.

      Really? What about the current one?

      It is simply impossible to convince the masses by being 'too big brained' such that they simply switch off.

      The "big brained" ideas are not for the masses, they are there to convince thinkers and intelligent people, who convince driven and sensible people, who convince the masses. This is how it has always worked.

      [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      My response ignores nothing lol? The conditions of interwar Germany have literally nothing to do with this topic. Your comments are the ones missing stuff, namely that the people who are part of the nationalist/racialist 'movement' today just aren't even remotely serious. This is what it comes down to, there is plenty of simplified propaganda which is how most people got here. The issue is that the vast majority of people take step 1 and just sit there forever, they don't look to organise, nor are they educating themselves on anything politically. They aren't serious about the struggle, they just like shitposting.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      yeah theorycelling is also known as obscurantism or a gish gallup. intended to waste our time. Only theory we need is common sense