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[–]AFutureConcern 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

How Marxism Disguises Itself As Social Justice & Equality.

Well, Marxism is social justice and equality. It's just that most people don't realize what that means. Equality is pretending that people are equal when they are clearly not, and social justice is punishing successful groups (white people) for their sin of being more successful because they can only have gained their power through "oppression" (since they are equal to all other groups).

The idea of the oppressor/oppressed distinction of social justice ideology comes directly from the communist manifesto:

The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

Freeman and slave, patrician and plebeian, lord and serf, guild-master and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes.

Modern leftist movements simply apply this to men/women, white/black, straight/gay and so on.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Marxism is Marxism - about fairness for the working class - and therefore has been demonized by the ruling class and their VERY effective psyops not to mention how they pervert it and make it into Big Gov (ie. communism). Many other things, pure and/or corrupt, have been attached or associated with it. For example: "Cultural Marxism" should really be called "Cultural Communism" or "Cultural Totalitarianism" or "Cultural PC Police Assholeism".

Marxism is NOT social justice and equality.

Marxism can be related to social justice and equality.

"Modern" leftist movements have been intentionally corrupted into absurdity to destroy what they legitimately stood for. The ant-war movement is dead. Anti-pollution is now about the Carbon Tax Scam. Factory farming has silenced animal-rights. Universal healthcare isn't even considered during a fucking scamdemic. Pussy hat marches and current rioters aren't even demanding anything. The Old-Left had its balls removed, any momentum completely destroyed, and has been flipped into Clown World.

[–]horatioherbert 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Marxism is not ‘fairness for the working class ‘ I would state it’s ownership of production by working class. And now you think all members of the working class are identical and have exactly the same goals.. sure keep dreaming.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Naw. You're completely wrong repeating brainwashing talking points. Read my other comment under this post.

[–]horatioherbert 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Thank you for your thoughtful and considerate response. Naw

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Be free to remain ignorant.

[–]horatioherbert 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

You are free to join a hippy commune and eat food on the floor without utensils

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I've been to Burning Man, ten times, with the biggest capitalists and communists in the nation. Loved it.

[–]horatioherbert 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

"I've been to Burning Man, ten times," - I'm very happy your mom let you attend little fella, and she even brought your capitalist and communist pals! Not just any capitalist or communist, the biggest in the nation! I applaud your networking skills. Bravo!

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Several of my other family members attended and actually my Mom was planning to go.

Most of the capitalists and communists there were not my pals, and if any were capitalists or communists they didn't tell me, and I didn't care, but it's no secret that Silicon Valley and Hollywood are always there in full force. That's not why I "networked" there.

Too bad your mom won't let you go. You might actually like it big guy.

[–]AFutureConcern 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What we're seeing now are the consequences of Marxist ideals. I know it doesn't look like it was supposed to ("that's not real communism" (TM)) - but that's just how Marxism ends up, every single time. It destroys culture, tradition, religion and identity so that a rootless cabal can consolidate power over the ruins.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Actually, what we're seeing is the work of the Zionist corporatocracy. The left-right paradigm is designed to make you pick sides and buy into that Hegelian dialectic. I agree it's evil and does all those things - but that's not Marxism.

Just as socialism and communism have been corrupted in many countries, capitalism has had is epic failures too. Recognize a riot in your streets as a sign and don't buy into the us vs them bullshit. Russia and China are just as capitalist as the USA and the USA is now just as communist as them. Communism was totalitarian to a degree, just as capitalism was inverted-totalitarianism to a degree but now the capitalists and communists have merged into a totalitarian corporatocracy. If Russia and China were actually in opposition then they would have called out the manufactured coronavirus scamdemic crises for the bullshit that it really is - except they are going along with it to oppress their own people too.

"that's just how Marxism ends up, every single time"

False. You may be meaning communism which is a corruption of socialism with a totalitarian government controlling everything. China despite its countless flaws has come further in the last 30 years than anywhere on Earth and is about to dominate the world, including the USA (lead by Zionists) in countless ways, and in many already does.

It would be almost impossible for me to post so many Marxist posts without understanding anything in them.

If you want effective protests, you need to stop the power and control and profits of the ruling class - without violence or destruction. They have a monopoly on violence and seek any excuse to use it.

Take back the means of production and instead of working for a single boss or some executive board, work for your collective selves in a democratic worker directed enterprise, aka worker cooperative, or coop. Bring democracy, fairness, and accountability to the workplace. Work Coops are is the 3rd type of Marxist socialism they never talk about because they don't want us to know about ground up authentic democracy.

/s/Documentaries/comments/4nv0/if_you_must_protest_do_it_with_purpose_and_an_end/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation - largest worker coop in the world - a success!

I'll be making /s/Cooperatives next week unless someone beats me to it.

Billionaires pay millionaires to tell the middle class that the poor are the problem - and they'll tell you entire nations are the enemy, not just their exploitative "leaders". The only enemy worth fighting is the ruling class, regardless of origin.

[–]AFutureConcern 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Actually, what we're seeing is the work of the Zionist corporatocracy. The left-right paradigm is designed to make you pick sides and buy into that Hegelian dialectic. I agree it's evil and does all those things - but that's not Marxism.

Here, I agree. The mainstream political spectrum is a false choice.

But in my view, it's a false choice because both sides accept some version of egalitarianism, whether of opportunity or outcome. Communism , being on the left of the mainstream political spectrum, believes in equality of outcome. Liberalism, being on the right of the mainstream political spectrum, believes in equality of opportunity.

Just as socialism and communism have been corrupted in many countries, capitalism has had is epic failures too. Recognize a riot in your streets as a sign and don't buy into the us vs them bullshit. Russia and China are just as capitalist as the USA and the USA is now just as communist as them. Communism was totalitarian to a degree, just as capitalism was inverted-totalitarianism to a degree but now the capitalists and communists have merged into a totalitarian corporatocracy. If Russia and China were actually in opposition then they would have called out the manufactured coronavirus scamdemic crises for the bullshit that it really is - except they are going along with it to oppress their own people too.

Agreed, communism and liberal capitalism are two sides of the same coin. They both believe in equality, and equality of opportunity is not really so different from equality of outcome. In fact, the only way to get true equality of opportunity is to equalize the conditions people grow up in, and that means heavy taxation of inherited wealth, and redistribution to children in poor families. In fact everything will be equalized until the liberal is different from a communist only by a random factor; in other words, equality of opportunity is when the mean of the expected wealth distribution is the same for everyone - the liberal just accepts the standard deviation can be positive.

False. You may be meaning communism which is a corruption of socialism with a totalitarian government controlling everything. China despite its countless flaws has come further in the last 30 years than anywhere on Earth and is about to dominate the world, including the USA (lead by Zionists) in countless ways, and in many already does.

Yes

It would be almost impossible for me to post so many Marxist posts without understanding anything in them.

I've seen some of Richard Wolff before, he's who comes to mind as a contemporary Marxist theorist.

The way I see it, traditional Marxist materialism has given way to a neo-Marxism that transfers the focus from the base to the superstructure of society. The communist ideal of a classless, egalitarian society remains, but dissolving cultural traditions has become the focus. This video explains it quite well.

Where I think Marxist materialists tend to go wrong is precisely where the liberals go wrong - they don't see how their ideology was unstable and gave way to the evolved form. Dialectical materialism gave way to critical theory, and liberalism to postmodernism; their bastard child intersectionality is now running the show.

If you want effective protests, you need to stop the power and control and profits of the ruling class - without violence or destruction. They have a monopoly on violence and seek any excuse to use it.

Take back the means of production and instead of working for a single boss or some executive board, work for your collective selves in a democratic worker directed enterprise, aka worker cooperative, or coop. Bring democracy, fairness, and accountability to the workplace. Work Coops are is the 3rd type of Marxist socialism they never talk about because they don't want us to know about ground up authentic democracy.

/s/Documentaries/comments/4nv0/if_you_must_protest_do_it_with_purpose_and_an_end/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation - largest worker coop in the world - a success!

I'll be making /s/Cooperatives next week unless someone beats me to it.

Cooperatives are interesting, but again based in an idealized democracy, which is fundamentally egalitarian at its root. For this reason I think the social rot will continue to spread in a cooperative-run economy. Do these coops have "diversity and inclusion" initiatives? If they do, they've already been corrupted.

Billionaires pay millionaires to tell the middle class that the poor are the problem - and they'll tell you entire nations are the enemy, not just their exploitative "leaders". The only enemy worth fighting is the ruling class, regardless of origin.

Oh, the elites are absolutely the problem. I think it's a misunderstanding of right-wing thought to claim that rightists think "the poor are the problem". No, the right-wing position is that wealth redistribution to the poor will have bad outcomes; in the liberal capitalist's view, the incentive to work and produce will be diminished, making everyone worse off long-term, and in my view, it reinforces egalitarianism, encourages dysgenics, and ultimately dissolves culture and tradition.


† I really did mean communism before, not Marxism; I was using them as synonyms in a sloppy way.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Some egalitarianism is present in every government. All the citizens are supposed to equally obey the laws and pay taxes, obey police and be "protected" by the military. Even the ruling class have their equally applied rules (ie. don't subvert the status quo).

IMO egalitarianism, like socialism, capitalism, science, technology, etc - call all be used for good and/or evil.

I prefer to use Mark Passio's Natural Law (not other things with the same name) as my foundation for morality and ethics, though I really wish someone would make a tight glossy short version for the masses instead of the tedious 6 hour lecture. Based on that simple premise, I have little need for government, except that others may not respect Natural Law, and then of course there's a LOT of grey area too.

Back to the point, instead of "equality" I prefer to think about "fairness", because not everyone is equal, obvious to some, not to others.

"Communism , being on the left of the mainstream political spectrum, believes in equality of outcome. Liberalism, being on the right of the mainstream political spectrum, believes in equality of opportunity."

You're speaking a limited language with your left-right without the totalitarian-anarchism dimension in this basic chart:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Political_Compass_yellow_LibRight.svg

I find these pretty good with the labels, though I don't agree on all of them:
https://i.stack.imgur.com/PhPdn.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMW-9l2WsAEuwfc.jpg

I prefer the absolutism of the poles/corners in this config, though IMO ideally it would better rounded out into a circle:
https://external-preview.redd.it/FmMP3NUgNBQNdd40pzW7Yn9ME4IQJVl6oCNMGZwaUNk.jpg?s=ff82175052bedf7fe1f81ec87c992d971b90ccbc

This is silly:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/25/20/d1/2520d1ceebc88e6d9cb7be79e7a72d38--political-spectrum-chart-intersectional-feminism.jpg

"heavy taxation of inherited wealth, and redistribution to children in poor families"

I certainly wouldn't mind that. The poor need all the help they can get. The rich don't make all their fortunes by themselves but only by exploiting those desperate enough and unable to find better options elsewhere. The greatest problem with this, like everything else, including that capitalist and communist egalitarianism is who manages it and how. There will always be the rich and powerful in any system controlling it.

As I often repeat, the billionaires pay millionaires to tell the middle class that the poor are the problem - and they believe them.

"The communist ideal of a classless, egalitarian society remains, but dissolving cultural traditions has become the focus."

The big problem in a well stated nutshell. Even if we all started from zero today, in no time there would be classes because people have different abilities. Some are smart, work longer, more efficient, focus on lucrative ventures, etc etc etc. People can't be expected to be equal, but we can make it fairer. More fair. Both sound weird.

Looks like a good video, thanks. I'll watch after this. You should post. Ping me and I'll upvote it.

"their bastard child"

Sexist! The child may not choose to be male and could be 71 other genders. /s

"based in an idealized democracy, which is fundamentally egalitarian at its root"

I don't see the egalitarian part or why it matters for coops. However I would agree with the "idealized" part if you mean that the capitalists and communists will try to destroy authentic democracy - just as they did unions. Smear, infiltrate, subvert, corrupt, collapse, nullify. Or they could use their monopoly on violence whether it's making laws against them, endless red tape, sending in the goons/police, etc.

The great thing about coops is they can be whatever you (collectively) want them to be. Including "diversity and inclusion" would only be one aspect, perhaps even well meaning, and could be phased out in the future when the woke actually inevitably wake up that people can never be equal and artificially forcing it is stupid. Common sense and democracy should prevail and those coops should be able to thrive and grow, and ideally bring into their folds those who tried and failed and need to learn how it ought to work.

"the incentive to work and produce will be diminished"

IMO that's a huge fallacy. Sure some may be slackers and let them. At least they won't be motivated to riot or do other crimes. Most people will still want more and find ways to earn more. Most people are good. A few are not and they are poor, rich, stupid, and/or smart and everything in between. A rising tide lifts all boats - but everyone needs the basics of a boat (food, shelter, security, communications, transport, school, healthcare) and surely we should cover everyone for that at minimum. After that, earn your extras and luxuries. It kinda works in socialist Canada and Scandinavian nations. If it didn't more people would freeze to death.