The Netherlands and Denmark will give F-16s to Ukraine.

submitted by Dune1032 from (apnews.com)

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[–]iamonlyoneman 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

inb4 ukraine still gets steamrolled

[–]Dune1032[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Not necessarily. With F-16s Ukraine could attack Russian planes and ships in the Black Sea. Also, F-16s could provide air cover for attacking Ukrainian ground troops.

[–]iamonlyoneman 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

a couple dozen f-16s are going to be shot the fuck down immediately and then nothing will be different except the number of dead ukranians

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Does Russia have manpads that are actually dangerous to F-16s? From what I understand they can't be used near S-400s, etc., but Ukraine has been eliminating a lot of those in preparation of deployment of F-16s.

Actually, I would expect that the F-16s come with electronic warfare upgrades to overwhelm all old technology like the S-{3,4}00 series.

I think F16s will be able to provide close air support in localized areas to breach lines, but demining hardware would also have to be supplied for there to be any point in doing that.

The main problem is that not enough will be delivered to come close to what one could describe as an "air campaign". Having said that the longer this takes, the more it's about the size of industrial bases and the West has historically crushed Russia. I don't see a reason why this time it would be different. I think this conflict will be milked by the military industrial complex to test directed energy weapons as well (in secret, obviously).

The longer the war takes, the greater the profits for industry.

Also, the West is sending reduced range weapons systems from the 1980s, which is kind of showing what a huge pile of escalation of weapons systems there still is.

I think if there will be a nuclear war, not a single nuke will land on US soil (although, perhaps the EU will be in ashes, which would be a bad thing for me personally, because I happen to live there).

[–]iamonlyoneman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The main problem

is that Ukraine is not going to be fighting anymore by the time these aircraft get there. If by some miracle the globohomo west manages to still find obsolete weapons from 1947 to send to Ukraine and they're still fighting, the planes will be shot down by a communist with a rifle because the pilots will be greener than emeralds

Hmyes, we are sending mothballed equipment after taking it from our own active military troops and having their modern equipment blown up because we have more to give. Do you even listen to yourself sometimes?

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The West doesn't want to share their latest toys, because of the risk of reverse-engineering. Also, by sending their old equipment first, they can figure out what level of technology is required to gain parity with Russia and they don't have to dismantle their old weapons; they can just have them actually be used.

Do you really think the US, the country with the largest number of bases in the world, has a shortage of weapons or even a shortage of know-how how to create more really fucking fast?

[–]iamonlyoneman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LOL they have everything the west uses except stuff that is capable of sending nukes already. They sent the newest Patriots, which Russia blew up, so they were sending HAWKs instead. HAWKS older than the oldest soldiers in the Ukranian army LOL

Yes. USA is not ready for total warfare. The production of artillery shells is so slow that we sent obsolete and human rights-violating shells and our artillerymen are wearing out their barrels practicing with concrete rounds because there are none for training. There are no stockpiles. They all got shipped to be wasted in Ukraine.

Which is just as well in my estimation because it means we won't be able to launch a war against china over taiwan which is ALSO none of our business

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do you think the US would allow Ukraine to be completely taken over? All I see is the US slowly bleeding the Russian army and weakening the weapons they send (e.g. downgraded armor for their tanks). If the US had any real concern about the outcome of this war, they would be sending their best stuff. The US is treating Russia as if it is a toddler with a tantrum.

I think the US is just toying with "gas station" Russia in that the US does have counter-measures against their nukes. It's just that they want to keep those a secret for their war with China around 2035. I think in a scenario were Russia launches all their nukes, not a single one will hit their target and Russia itself will be known as Glassnost.

[–]iamonlyoneman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

ur gonna be real surprised when ukraine steamrolls ukraine LOL

[–]Dune1032[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good. The Ukrainian pilots will have to be trained but there might be a lull in the fighting during the winter.

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I don't get why they just don't give them AI pilots, which are probably trained faster than human pilots.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the only public AI jet pilot right now is bayraktar, who recently opened a facility in Ukraine. So yeah, Ukraine are getting AI jets

[–]Dune1032[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

AI controlled fighter planes are still in the experimental stage.

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The technology needed to do the complex parts of flight on a super human level already worked in 2005 in public academic papers. Things like targeting are comparatively easy. What the fuck have they been doing in the past 18 years?

[–]Dune1032[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

From https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a42868467/ai-flies-fighter-jet-first-time/

Hivemind uses algorithms that Shield claims can do everything from mission planning to mapping. Eventually, the company says, aircraft will be able to fly and fight missions nearly on their own. Brandon Tseng, Shield AI’s cofounder, said in a news release that the company is “racing to put up swarms of highly intelligent aircraft to deter the next conflict.”

A few years ago, Elon Musk even predicted that fighter jets would soon become obsolete due to advances in AI. But some observers say that AI is a long way from replacing human pilots.

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Tseng? Could they have not funded someone without an Asian name for reasons of national security? What a fucking idiots.

I am not sure what one would spend $60M on, since neural architectures can be designed automatically based on decades of telemetry. I think their startup could be replicated within the US Airforce in six months with the right team. Incredible that anyone funds these people.

Elon Musk is a grifter. Not sure why anyone would care about his opinion about a field he has no expertise in.

[–]Dune1032[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Many engineers are Asians. There are still problems with self-driving cars. See https://www.sciencenews.org/article/five-challenges-self-driving-cars

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That wasn't the point.

Also, a self-driving car needs to be safe. A fighter jet can just self-destruct when it goes outside of design parameters.

[–]Dune1032[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of course, a fighter jet has to be safe. It can't attack friendly assets or civilian targets.