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[–]WandersFar[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

Do you think the admins care about WotB?

Seriously, what makes you think the admin wouldn’t love to see your sub banned, your users suspended, as they did to TD and ChapoTrapHouse?

The admins are not your friend.

There is no point to escalating report abuse, not after the API changes, the Blackout, the killing of gilding, the landed gentry comments by the CEO, the gaslighting from the VP of Community.

How can WotB’s mod team have any faith in admin judgment anymore? You know they’ll fuck it up, so why do you give them the opportunity?

Handle reports yourselves, like most mod teams do on Reddit, certainly the ones that joined the protest and have seen the admins for what they are.

Use Toolbox the way it was designed to be used, to make your lives easier without relying on nonexistent admin support. Enable approve on ignore / ignore on approve so you can process each reported item once and only once.

This is seriously basic shit, guys.

Look, it’s your sub, if you want to escalate every random report, knock yourself out. But you now have proof that your users can and have gotten caught in the pointless crossfire.

Continuing your current policy means you value flagging spammers for Reddit, Inc over keeping your own users safe from incompetent admin actions.

[–]FThumbStay thirsty, my friends 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

Seriously, what makes you think the admin wouldn’t love to see your sub banned, your users suspended, as they did to TD and ChapoTrapHouse?

They would, and they would use abused reporting to justify it.

[–]WandersFar[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

Only if you acted on the reports in a way that violated site-wide rules.

Receiving reports does nothing. It’s only when you act on them that your action is recorded in your Mod Log.

So if it’s breaking a site-wide rule, you remove the offending item. If it’s not, you approve & ignore future reports on that item.

This isn’t rocket science.

[–]MartiniPlease send olives! 🍸 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

Actually, Reddit admin made it clear that we cannot just receive and ignore reports. We have to be 'active' or get on the naughty mod list.

We either must proactively approve them, which we will not do for people promoting violence, for instance, or we escalate them (for people promoting violence), because admin HAS gotten back to us that whatever anon report abuser has been seen by admin as abusing the report feature, and action taken on them. Ie, trolls who were abusing the report button were dealt with by admin because we escalated appropriately.

That escalation on the troll's hateful report led to your spam report being caught sideways by admin. We didn't escalate your spam report, we escalating a troll being a troll.

Does that track?

[–]WandersFar[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Actually, Reddit admin made it clear that we cannot just receive and ignore reports. We have to be 'active' or get on the naughty mod list.

FThumb already said here that you never use the Ignore Reports button.

So if the admin told you to be active and not ignore reports, they must not have been referring to the Ignore Reports button, but your overall level of activity as documented in your Mod Log.

If items have been reported to your queue and you just let them sit there without taking action on them, absolutely that is an actionable offense. The admins view this as abandoning your sub, and they can either shut it down (turn it private), put it up on r/RedditRequest, boot your mods from the team, or some combination of the above.

How do I know this? Because this happened to a niche sub I visited regularly. There was only one mod, they lost interest in the subject matter, and stopped attending to the queue. The admin sent them a warning in Mod Mail, and when they ignored it, they turned the whole sub private and no one was able to post or comment anymore. Many people were not subscribed, so they weren’t even able to get into the sub in the first place.

Luckily I had subscribed, so I was able to contact that mod, reach out to the admins, and get that sub up and running again. I am now the only active mod for that subreddit.

Because of your mod team’s actions, I no longer have access to that sub’s queue, and there is no one who can handle reports for the duration of my suspension.

In other words, by pursuing this stupid policy, you have put the status of one of my subreddits at risk. So yeah, I’m pretty pissed about that.

Moreover, it is the busy season for one of my other subs. The series is currently airing, this is the most active time of the year for our subreddit. That also means the queue is also receiving more reports than usual.

Since I’ve been suspended, more of the burden now falls on the other mods on my team, which is not fair to them, and inconveniences our users.

So I’m pissed about that, too.

Finally, I was hosting a couple events this week on another subreddit. One of them was yesterday. I’ve had to cancel and push them back, all because of this fucking suspension.

So when I say that you guys screwed me over, I mean it.

You owe it to your users to post a warning that you’re escalating reports to the admin. They have a right to know that they can get their whole account suspended or even banned just for submitting a good faith report.

All it would take is a simple mod note on the thread. And no one on your team could be bothered to do that.

We either must proactively approve them, which we will not do for people promoting violence, for instance, or we escalate them (for people promoting violence), because admin HAS gotten back to us that whatever anon report abuser has been seen by admin as abusing the report feature, and action taken on them. Ie, trolls who were abusing the report button were dealt with by admin because we escalated appropriately.

If it’s really that bad, why don’t you just program AutoModerator to filter all comments pending moderator review?

You see the comment first, evaluate whether it’s in violation of site-wide rules, approve & ignore if it’s good, proactively remove if it’s not.

If you do that, no one will be able to submit a “promoting violence” report in the first place.

That’s probably the most extreme solution, but it literally took me the time to type it out to think of it. I’m sure you could do better if you just give it some thought.

Most importantly, this method ensures that none of your regular users will ever be subject to accidental site-wide suspension, which is an issue that none of you seem to be taking seriously. Not based on the trolling responses I’ve received in this thread.

That escalation on the troll's hateful report led to your spam report being caught sideways by admin. We didn't escalate your spam report, we escalating a troll being a troll.

Did you ever consider that the troll is winning? With your current approach, you inadvertently got one of your oldest users suspended from the entire site. How do you think the troll would view that? Probably as a victory.

At a bare minimum if you insist on regularly escalating report abuse to the admin, you should program AutoModerator to post a warning on the thread whenever you do it. There are several ways you can accomplish this, and since you currently use AutoModerator to enforce turtling with more complicated rules, someone on your team should be able to figure it out.

But setting all these technical issues aside, what I was really looking for from this mod team was a simple Sorry! It won’t happen again.

But that level of basic courtesy was apparently too much to ask for. I expected better from you guys.

[–]FThumbStay thirsty, my friends 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

FThumb already said here that you never use the Ignore Reports button.

Your pedantry is getting tiresome. When I said "never" I didn't mean it in the literal never ever, I meant it in the colloquial "we used to use it now and then but stopped using it altogether some time ago.

At what point do you start listening to what we've been trying to say to you without twisting everything to support your victim-hood?

Once more, for the hard of hearing in the back of the room: WE ESCALATED A BOGUS REPORT BEFORE YOUR SPAM REPORT WAS LOGGED AND ADMINS GOT THERE AFTER YOUR SPAM REPORT WAS MADE AND SWEPT YOU UP IN THEIR OVERREACTION. THIS IS NOT ON OUR MODS.

[–]WandersFar[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Of course it’s on you mods. When you escalate anything to the admin, you don’t know how they’re going to act.

You owe it to your users to let them know they’re risking site-wide suspension every time they file a report.

AND ABUSING CAPS LOCK DOESN’T MAKE YOU RIGHT.

[–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

ABUSING CAPS LOCK

I thought you were someone who regularly ignored abuse of things, and encouraged others to do the same.

[–]WandersFar[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I GUESS YOU LOVE READING MSGS IN ALL CAPS, HUH? IT'S SO MUCH EASIER TO READ WHEN EVERYONE TYPES LIKE A BOOMER ON FACEBOOK!

Fuck off with that noise. Caps Lock is tacky, everyone knows that. It’s the equivalent of shouting through text, and is never persuasive. Quite the opposite.

[–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I GUESS YOU LOVE READING MSGS IN ALL CAPS, HUH?

By that logic, it would seem that you love abuse of the report button.
That might have something to do with your suspension.....

[–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The more this goes on, the angrier and more disconnected you sound.

Everyone (but you) can see it.

[–]FThumbStay thirsty, my friends 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

AND ABUSING CAPS LOCK DOESN’T MAKE YOU RIGHT.

IT DOESN'T MAKE US WRONG, EITHER.

[–]WandersFar[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You are wrong.

You escalated to the admin, even though you knew it would put your own users at risk for site-wide suspension.

You don’t even have the decency to post a warning.

You are not transparent about your terrible corporate-serving policies. You’re more concerned with currying favor with Reddit, Inc than protecting your users from admin abuse.

Everything that you say about WotB being a free speech zone is belied by this fact:

It is far worse to be banned from an entire site than a single subreddit, or even just having a post or comment removed.

No one on your mod team has attempted to argue otherwise, because it’s indefensible.

[–]FThumbStay thirsty, my friends 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

You escalated to the admin, even though you knew it would put your own users at risk for site-wide suspension.

You make a lot of [incorrect] assumption.

No one on your mod team has attempted to argue otherwise, because it’s indefensible.

Is there any point in here where you take any personal responsibility?