Day Four Of "Two-Day" Strike: Well, NOW What?

submitted by penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable from (self.WayOfTheBern)

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[–]risistill me 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (58 children)

One problem with polling the WOTBers who made it here is that you're polling the WOTBers who made it here.

The opinions of the people posting here--12 at the moment, if the counter is correct--are important. But so are the opinions of the 150 or so who used to show on the reddit counter. For whatever reason, they have not come to WOTB saidit. They've spoken, too.

While a few of us are here, they are either finding other ways to occupy their time, or posting at the reddit subs that are open. I would not assume that they will return to WOTB after an extended protest.

For comments from the outside world, just put reddit protest blackout in your search bar.

OT, but the message currently visible at WOTB reddit states that, if people want to talk about the protest, they can come to saidit. No indication that they should come to saidit for any other reason.

[–]Maniak🥃😾 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

But so are the opinions of the 150 or so who used to show on the reddit counter. For whatever reason, they have not come to WOTB saidit.

That's because the counter on Reddit is rigged, which we discovered just this week thanks to the blackout. With the sub being private since monday, the Reddit counter has remained in the 150-250 range all along, pretty much as if the sub was still public.

So fake number and/or the sub being pummelled by bots (which would explain the instant downvotes and such), who knows, but those are obviously not real users participating in the sub, given that they can't.

[–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

the sub being pummelled by bots

Something did occur to me while trying to think this through.... The Remindme! bot has to actually read all the comments to find its own RemindMe! requests... that would be one "here now." Which would probably check every so often.

Edit: What the Remindme! bot actually does, specifically, might help in figuring what the "here now" counter actually counts.

But if you compare to some other high-traffic subreddit, you might be able to get that base number of the "good" bots. A quick look at SFP (currently open) gives....118 as opposed to WotB's 136.

[–]Maniak🥃😾 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The Remindme! bot has to actually read all the comments to find its own RemindMe! requests... that would be one "here now." Which would probably check every so often.

If based on polling everything yes, but I'd hope that it's based on triggers like automod, as in it's called when a comment is posted/edited. Which should be the default behavior of... well... all such bots because otherwise it's a constant DDOS attack from everywhere :)

[–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd hope that it's based on triggers like automod

The only place you would have automod triggers would be things that were internally reddit/saidit specific -- user pings and the such.

The remindmebot is (AFAIK) just something someone built. I'm guessing that it accesses the API of AllRedditComments, or asks the API for all recent comments containing a specific string. Either way, it may be that any request of information within the WotB part of the Reddit Database would count as a "here now." Remember, each user-build bot has a Reddit account associated with it.

So each one within a certain time frame would be one "here now," no matter how many times it looked.

[–]risistill me 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

A while back, the number was around 70. I was happy to see it go up.

Maybe I just never noticed how few actually posted at WOTB? Does it matter if a bot or an anonymous poster started an interesting thread?

[–]Maniak🥃😾 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Does it matter if a bot or an anonymous poster started an interesting thread?

Probably not, but outside of the basic "what happened to ThisSub™️?" posts, I doubt there were many bot-based submissions. They were more about downvoting and making useless noise in the comments.

As for the non-regular submissions, I'd be fine with seeing what happens when replacing the fire and forget shitlibs with whatever is elsewhere on SaidIt :)

If given enough time to pick up steam, we may end up not losing much, if anything, on the new content front.

Besides, the Reddit sub will still be there to get those posts, among links to posts made on SaidIt. From there, we'll see what happens organically, without trying to force anything.

[–]risistill me 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

P.S. Some bots were starting some of the threads and/or some posters were spamming like thirty subs with the same OP.

[–]Maniak🥃😾 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh right, forgot about these ones :)

Some of my only ever removals for spam, for the cases when it was actual spam :)

[–]risistill me 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If given enough time to pick up steam...

Time could cause a pick up or the reverse.

Besides, the Reddit sub will still be there to get those posts

Not if it remains locked.

Speaking of....There should be a way for us to access our own comments, even while the sub is locked. It's weird to have the legal copyright to something I can't even see. (I can see my OPs, but unlike many posters, I do make some longer replies.)

[–]Maniak🥃😾 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Not if it remains locked.

At some point it won't be. We're in wait&see mode for now :)

Speaking of....There should be a way for us to access our own comments, even while the sub is locked. It's weird to have the legal copyright to something I can't even see. (I can see my OPs, but unlike many posters, I do make some longer replies.)

Reddit magic. But unless the admins decide to wipe it all out, it will be available again at some point. Even if only to give time to export your posts/comments via PowerDeleteSuite or similar.

[–]risistill me 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Jeebus.Almost six years of comments.

[–]Maniak🥃😾 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

The export could take some time :)

[–]risistill me 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Assuming I could manage it. I have bookmarked the name of the app, though.

[–]Vulptex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This has been known for some time now: https://www.reddit.com/r/EverythingFoxes/comments/cvhrok/reddit_admins_dropped_this_subs_rank_231k_points/

https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchRedditDie/comments/d0dhxm/further_evidence_that_reddit_has_manually/

Subreddits not controlled by DefaultMods are also not listed on reddit's official alphabetical index.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

No indication that they should come to saidit for any other reason.

We're dealing with severe character limits so had to get to the major point, why we're discussing the shutdown here instead of there.

[–]risistill me 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The notice is obviously not the place to discuss the protest, but my point was that the reason to come here was too narrow. As far as the characters, I can cut them down without omitting anything, if anyone wants that.

ETA Maybe I'm still not being clear. If I try to go to r/WOTB to post or read and see that message, I might not click on the link if I have no interest in discussing the protest. However, discussion of the protest is not all that is going on here. People are posting about other topics, just as they did on reddit.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's been amended.

[–]risistill me 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Just checked it out. The revision addressed my concern and then some. Excellent!

[–]risistill me 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good to know!

[–][deleted]  (38 children)

[deleted]

    [–]InumaGaming Socialist 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

    --how many were bots- or, in my case, browser tabs on a machine that never shut down, whether I was looking at it or not?

    ... I feel attacked...

    [–]risistill me 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    If any of us is obviously not a bot, it would be you!

    [–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

    Honest question to the group as a whole: how many of those entities listed in the "150 here now" counter were actually real people, and how many were bots- or, in my case, browser tabs on a machine that never shut down, whether I was looking at it or not?

    Data that might point toward an answer: currently r/WotB is set to private, no more than a couple dozen total allowed access...
    <goes to check> "159 users here now" (Down from 254)

    That number is probably not going to be useful. How many usernames of non-trollish content do you remember seeing, roughly?
    Add say another 50% for people you missed, and you may have a better number.

    [–][deleted]  (30 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

      I didn't even know that that info was available.

      The info I was talking about is in your head. How many different actual people do you recall talking with? Roughly?
      A dozen or so? A few dozen? Five?

      BTW, 258 "there now"

      [–][deleted]  (28 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

        Here's yet another way: an almost universal law -- 20% of a group produces 80% of the product.

        (There was a VSauce video on this I saw once) 20% of the alphabet produces 80% of the English Language.

        You might be able to turn it around. How many people produce 80% of the WotB(Reddit) content? Multiply by 5.

        How you get to that number? That I don't know. ;-)

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          Ah, yes.... Etoain Shrdlu, from Lorem Ipsum.

          [–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          I have the short-term memory of a dyspeptic fruit-bat.

          You have such a way with words.

          [–]risistill me 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          That caught my eye (in a good way) as well. Not to mention that I'd never heard of fruit bats before, only fruit flies. TIL

          [–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

          Ahhh. Five to ten, maybe.

          OK, let's call it eight. Plus you. Plus an as yet unknown number of people whom you saw but did not interact with, who seemed real. That gives a bottom number, a lower bound.

          (Just trying to get to a number here, no gotchas)

          How much more conversation (not trolling, not argument) per unit of time did you see over there, as opposed to here? Twice as much? Ten times as much? The "here now" number over here is one I'm more inclined to believe, so use that as your estimation multiplier. It's been jumping between about ten and twenty, so if there were ten times as many people on Reddit, that'd be about 100-200 people.

          (For anyone following along, your numbers will vary.)

          And it is interesting (to me, anyway) that that number is fluctuating that much under the private-site lockdown.

          In case you haven't noticed, quite interesting to me as well. During shutdown, I've seen it as low as 80 and at over 300.

          [–]risistill me 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

          Who are you again?

          I do remember netweasel, of course but that that would be my question to many other r/WOTB posters if I could not check posting history

          I am wretched at names, including IRL. It's as though that part of my brain consists of a sieve. Same for my sense of direction, btw.

          [–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          I am wretched at names, including IRL.

          Well, good thing for this particular do-not-trust-the-here-now thought experiment, you don't need names.
          Just "how many different people"?

          I happen to know that you have spoken to quite a few :-)

          [–]risistill me 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          You are not grasping the extent of the name drain in my brain.

          I would have had to differentiate between and among the names to be able to answer that.

          [–][deleted]  (17 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

            Here's another question to get the numbers up:

            When a troll popped up, how many distinct individuals do you remember countering them?

            [–]risistill me 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

            At which point in time?

            BTW, if you can tell us the actual answer currently, please do.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              It is an interesting exercise.

              When you do not trust the number you are given, use the other numbers that you have to derive it.

              I'd say that the total conversation flow (defined as: new threads) feels to me as if it is down by 75%. I wonder how wrong I can be on that one?

              At this point it doesn't matter how right or wrong you are. We're building your estimation. Other people can follow along and build theirs.

              "Down by 75%" would mean 4 times as much over there. That gives roughly 60-ish people, with a huge plus-or-minus.
              By your estimation. Somewhere between 40 and 80.

              [–]BlackhaloPurity Pony: Pусский бот 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              Solid points.

              [–]risistill me 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

              Replying to me may not be the best way to get the attention of the group as a whole. Maybe copypasta as a reply to the OP or start a thread?

              I wondered along those lines as well, but I also wondered if surfacing that would help or harm.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]risistill me 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                Got it. Me too.