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[–]QueenBread 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Ok, so, wow. Every now and then this thread pops up and it's disheartening.

Are there some fringe, crazy women using "feminism" as an excuse to hate men? Yes, but if you think that this means most or even all women are like that, then you are absolutely no different at all from the fringe, crazy women thinking all men are evil.

If I can understand most men are actually sane and decent people despite the fact that the fringe nutcases are the loudest and the worst, perhaps you should realize the same thing about women. When I see a big fat dude in a wig and a skirt threatening a small woman with rape or murder unless she accepts his dick, I DO NOT, I repeat, NOT think "ugh men, they are the worst". So I suggest when you see some crazy man-hating psycho gal, you do not make the sexist assumption "ugh women, they are the worst".

Not sure I made myself clear here.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think the issue here largely comes from a fundamental disagreement on what feminism is. I've had this discussion with several women who say exactly as you do, and I have no disagreement. Most women, even most feminists aren't the kind of crazy people you'll see on TikTok or whatever, but the crazy people are a very active and influential part of the general movement and should be openly criticized. I believe the crazy people are attached to feminism because the feminist theories in general are not correct or well formed. But the general social attitude is to dismiss such criticism as sexist outright since initially most all criticism is coming from the right as they dig up the crazy.

This isn't an issue unique to feminism it's prominent in most movements of any kind. LGBT being a prime example now where the initial idea such as decriminalizing their sexual behavior and allowing them civil rights such as joint tax filing and hospital visitation rights via marriage is not in and of itself a bad idea. But the basis for which the movement rotates around is a very vague concept of equality and love is love which eventually the fringes will utilize to justify things like legalizing sexual activity with minors or allowing for the capitalistic medical sector to profit off of life altering cosmetic surgeries in children. The initial goals of the movement when formed were not in and of themselves bad, but the core underlying philosophy which the movement was founded on was and the development towards its modern form was an inevitability because of it.

Feminism is not much different, if we define feminism as merely "women should be able to vote" "women should be able to own property" "women should not be barred from public life" "women have a right to be safe" "women have a right to make their own choices regarding sexual activity" "non consensual sex is a crime" etc. Are all very reasonable and I think correct statements. If this is what we say feminism is then you'll find me and the vast majority of others in the world agree and are then feminists. But the feminist movement in general is based not on merely these statements but on a very vague and nebulous idea of equality and empowerment which is not well defined and is used by the fringes to continually push the social boundaries and allow a vehicle by which clearly unhinged and hateful individuals can enact their own agendas. This is the problem I have with feminist movement in general. I think it's an ultimately unjustifiable movement in the long run and I think all the infighting and purity spiraling you see is a symptom of that. At the end of the day it's pretty stupid to say that men are better than women or women are better than men, but it's also stupid to say that men and women are equal in all aspects as clearly men and women are different. If we clarify this as legal equality, I tend to agree that men and women should be viewed equally under the eyes of the law. But if we erase the distinctions between men and women completely in society as some on the fringe wish or elevate women at the expense of men to get back at them or otherwise, then we have what I see is ostensibly the feminist movement today and I think it needs to be properly criticized.

Perhaps the best way to explain this is I see identifying as a feminist as similar to identifying as a men's rights activist. It's true there are some legitamate issues that men deal with, for example disparity in sentencing and custody rulings. But this isn't entirely unfair as some of these disparities are justified. And most of those who identify as men's rights activists are the kind of fringe women haters (or at least that's the general narrative and they are quite visible) that I see no benefit in identifying as a "men's rights activist" since you are lumping yourself in with the crazies.

[–]QueenBread 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a well-explained and reasonable take.

[–]hugged 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You're forgetting that "people" like OP think women having standards and saying no is misandry. It's a purely salty, inflammatory post that has no real-world basis. Some mentally ill woman got wronged by males and wants them to die, big fucking deal. The handful of psychos are not in any way comparable to what males dare to say and do. They are spoiled babies and get triggered by every little thing a woman does to make life safer and easier for her, so they cherry pick shit like this. The most toxic female-only space ("FDS") was never comparable to the most toxic male-only spaces‌ (of which there were several unlike for women) Nevermind that most women talking shit about men online are doing so ironically to make bottom of the barrel like OP seethe.

Let's not pretend it's not women who are hurt by transgenderism (which is rooted in gender roles feminist women oppose) more than anyone else. MtFs invading female-only spaces cause real-world damge and harm, erasure of tomboy culture is irreversibly ruining the lives and bodies of young girls who don't fit the Cute Feminine Baby stereotype.

Muh women causing trannyism is such a retarded take, lmao. Troons are hardcore misogynists. Feminists do say a lot of dumb shit though.

[–]DirewolfGhost 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Some women only spaces call for the gendercide of 90% of the male population... so... I don't care that you claim it is irony. Men aren't allowed the excuse of "its a joke", so neither should women. Unless they are an inferior and/or privileged class of individual (which they are). Can't have it both ways.

Women naturally hate men. Its ingrained. That's why they have to be controlled or they will bring collective ruin, unless they can sustain an underclass (men) to do things that are beneath them. This is what they've done through history.

Women caused the tranny movement through getting into the workforce. Men and women competing for the same space lead to the blank slate fallacy (there is no difference between sexes) propagation through society which lead to roleplaying as the other sex being seen as valid. MtF Troons are hardcore misogynists, yes, and women deserve everything they get from them and more.

Tomboy culture can only exist if there is a boy culture. Feminists are erasing tomboy culture.

Honestly the only way Feminists can get out of this pickle is to declare there is a distinct difference between men and women and that women have been abusing their powers for generations. Not gonna happen so us neo-trads have to hear this insufferable screeching between whiny bitch women and whiny bitch boys in public spaces. Because that's all feminists and trannies do. Neither group naturally polices their radicals like men do. So men will eat popcorn and watch the circus female hate groups have created.

[–]meisthebigdumbTransracial BlackX Rockgender Bispecies[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah that's plainly false, I don't care about women having preferences. I just strongly dislike feminism because a lot of the influential feminists straight up hating men. It's funny how you assume I can't pull because I don't agree with an ideology that's filled with man-haters. I don't treat women like aliens, but it's important to acknowledge that there are differences, and that men and women in general are suited for different things (something that feminism rejects).

Also using "women" and "males" in the same sentence is laughable and shows how immature you are. I don't go "muh men and females" when I criticize feminism, because it's retarded and I would rather make actual arguments, and because I have dated them before and don't think they deserve hate. Fuck feminism though

If I was actually "misogynist" I would be saying stuff like wanting to take away the woman's vote and would be a deranged porn addict. But I am neither of those two

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you're not treating women as a higher class than men you're misogynist.

Look up male expendability if you're wondering why everyone thinks this way. The primal world is evil.

[–]jacques1102 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah i especially disagree with the people saying"The only reason why were in this situation is because women voted."Seriously,this feels like straight narcissism where men can do no wrong and it some how is 100% women's fault.

[–]QueenBread 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed.