Gay Men"Do I sound gay?" documentary

submitted by lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian from (youtu.be)

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[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This is very interesting to me because I've wondered where the 'gay accent' or 'gay lisp' comes from, and why there's no lesbian equivalent. My theory is that the 'gay accent' is no different than any other accent. For example, if a baby is ethnically Chinese but is born and raised in the UK, the child will probably speak English and have a British accent. It will probably be very difficult for this person to shake that accent or unlearn it the older they get. But there's nothing innate about having a British (or Chinese) accent.

Likewise with the 'gay accent'. I don't think it's a coincidence that the 'gay accent' and the way a lot of transwomen talk is the same. It's a learned behavior. But just because it's learned in the most literal sense doesn't mean they're faking or putting on an act. When a non-native English speaker says something with an accent they aren't faking that any more than these guys are.

The docu really shed light on how 'sounding gay' is a turnoff for some gay men. I didn't know that. It also makes me sad to see that he hates his voice so much. I understand why, given that being openly gay has many societal drawbacks, but it shouldn't be a problem that someone is 'obviously' gay.

[–]grammaroo 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

it really isnt an accent. it's universal and any human being can point to a gay person's voice throughout all cultures and walks of life. it really does seem biological and not something thats passed on. If a japanese gay person has the same voice even before he's never met any other types of gays to affect him then it's not a cultural thing and it ends up sounding the same as gay white people in the west and gays in latin america or europe. this gay voice was probably there in 14th century europe or 250 BC ancient japan. it's not being passed on and its highly undesirable in the gay population. If it was a learned behaviour then speech therapists would be successful in removing it but they cant. This voice is usually a target for humiliation to the point of suicide or murder in countries like saudi arabia and iran. I dont think they have a proper community there for anyone to imitate this voice.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

it's universal and any human being can point to a gay person's voice throughout all cultures and walks of life

There's a bit in the docu where they reference an experiment where they played a series of men's voices for people and they were only able to correctly guess sexual orientation 60% of the time. Meaning some straight men 'sounded' gay and some gay men 'sounded' straight. A few of the main guy's friends also said they remembered him talking differently before he came out. I'm not an authority on how the 'gay voice' happens but I'm not seeing anything in real life or the docu that points to this being 100% innate. I knew one straight guy who I thought was gay because of how he spoke and I was wrong. Likewise I know a couple guys I'd have never 'clocked' as gay.

Speech therapists aren't perfect, they can't always help people. And just because something is a learned behavior doesn't mean it was learned consciously or is easily un-learned. Some learned behaviors are impossible for some to un-learn because they were acquired so early in life. I agree it's probably something that transcends cultures and is very deeply rooted in many societies, but that doesn't automatically make it entirely biological. If it were then all gay men would sound that way, and they don't.

[–]grammaroo 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

i think you're confusing "gay" as in every gay person but there are deeper divides within the gay community that arent really shared with the outside world. It's like saying "heterosexual" and then mixing, blending and confusing men and women together so you can never truly accurately pin things down. Gay men arent just homosexual but there are massive differences between 2 sets. It's usually seen as innate because there's no culture to pass this down and it's a new thing we pretend is cultural or an accent (we just called it an accent to put a fun positive spin on it) but having an effeminate, vulnerable "twink" guy with an effeminate voice standing next to some gay soldier with a voice so deep it travels through your bones when you hear it does show innate differences. There's also a deep split between the masculine and the more feminine gay men that's meant to be hidden or just not really talked about. Their flaws, deficiencies (the masculine ones) seem similar to a heterosexual males.

Femininity isnt passed down to gay men from women where its on loan to them and is being appropriated. What you see is them imitating the aesthetics and "sass" which is because they havent developed their own appreciation of gay male femininity but underneath it all, it's not really "learned" and i see an inconsistency in feminist thought over in ovarit where these men are being "performative" but then arent women being "performative" and imiitating masculinity because it's on loan to them by straight men like their love of math, or logic, honour or reason? This train of thought doesnt seem like it's practised or applied consistently