LGB ErasureCensorship Thursday - share your sub bans here!

submitted by NutterButterFlutterStill waving into the void[M] from (self.LGBDropTheT)

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[–]8bitgay 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It's almost hilarious that this person is a mod of AreTheStraightsOK. Straight people trying to appropriate the gay cause should be material for that sub.

that she is asking to be handed it as mod

This possibility seems terrifying. It's worse than the sub being banned altogether.

Sorry to say so, but I think it's better to not say stuff like "you're not a man" though. Misgendering these people is something that will never really get anywhere. You can make a very thoughtful comment but they'll just say "misgender, banned". All the other points you made will be lost. And even the mildest TQ+ supporters (which include not only the TQ+ themselves, but also many LGB people) see misgendering as the worst thing ever.

That's what I try to do at least. Criticize their points, point out how homophobic they are, how different their experiences are compared to gay men, but without misgendering. If anything I think it's more interesting to do the opposite: let them misgender. A tactic they love is showing pictures of a feminine transwoman and a masculine transman and asking "which one of them would a gay man date?". I think it's interesting to use the same tactic: show them pictures of non-binary people, of masculine cis women, of feminine cis men, and let them contradict themselves in their answers.

They also love assuming gender for gender non conforming people. In these cases I would also say that applying their own tactics also works, point out how bad it is that they're assuming gender.

I hope this doesn't sound like an attack, feel free to disagree with me.

[–]hinterlands 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Not being a man is the issue, though. And man is not a gender, it's a biological sex, and littlefang is not a man. Gay male spaces are exclusive to men. A woman coming in and saying she's a gay man is homophobia. Women cannot be men. It's outrageous that she's in our spaces calling us transphobes and bigots and hateful ... just because we're homosexual.

Therefore, be outraged at that outrage. We won't get anywhere if we don't defend our spaces. It's not okay.

You can't fight their invective while you're bending over backwards to accommodate them in your speech. littlefang is a homophobic intruder, and I've given her the welcome such deserve.

[–]8bitgay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Gay male spaces are exclusive to men.

I agree.

Therefore, be outraged at that outrage.

I am.

You can't fight their invective while you're bending over backwards to accommodate them in your speech.

I disagree here for the reasons I already stated though. The thing is, for the TQ+ supporters, "trans men are men" is a basic truth. You won't convince them otherwise, at least not at an initial moment. And sure, you might think you don't need to convince transmen of anything, but unfortunately nowadays there are many people who aren't TQ+ and are supportive of the TQ+ narrative.

Nowadays misgendering them only victimizes them more. The unfortunate truth is that a transman might be very aggressive and homophobic, but if a gay man misgenders the transman in response, people will be more shocked at the misgendering.

For me it's not about bending over backwards to accommodate to them. It's just that male homosexuality doesn't include people of the female sex. It doesn't matter if they consider themselves men or not, it doesn't matter if society considers them men or not.

[–]hinterlands 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The solution then is to remind everyone that homophobia is far worse than "misgendering." Not pretend like mishendering is worse than homophobia. I won't tie my hands by being polite.

Polite answers got us in this mess, and most of our spaces taken away. Our answers should get harsher and harsher until they get the picture. Homophobia is unacceptable. I don't care whose feelings I hurt saying so.