Identity

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

My point is that they think of themselves as mothers and people think of them as mothers.

And I think they are right. My birth mother disowned me when I transitioned. My best friends family welcomed me in. Her mother told me to call her mom. She’s more a mother to me than my birth mother. And that should matter.

And identity is like that. It’s not about a dictionary definition. It’s how you fit in the world and how you act and how people see you.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Im confident that no one who is not actually a mother doesn’t understand that they are not actually a mother. Unless they are severely mentally ill or something.

Your best friend’s mother may be a mother figure to you- is she legally or biologically your mother? If you ended up in the hospital would she be covered when they say only immediate family can visit? Could she make next of kin decisions for you if you weren’t capable? Could you do those things for her?

It does matter. To you. And to her. On a personal level. It doesn’t matter beyond that. I’m glad you have that connection, I truly am, I can’t tell you how genuinely happy it made me to read that you have that type of relationship, so I’m not trying to diminish it’s importance for you, my point is just that it’s significant on a solely personal level, it’s not recognized in any real way. Which is why I always say your personal sense of self can be just that, it’s just odd and imo wrong to expect others to take it as seriously as you do or even to respect it.

And identity is like that. It’s not about a dictionary definition. It’s how you fit in the world and how you act and how people see you.

Again- the world may see someone as maternal or motherly, if she’s not actually a mother, everyone will understand that. That’s why we have terms like “motherly” “maternal” “mother figure”.

The concept of claiming a close loved one as family is common, everyone still understands the difference between an actual sister and someone close like a sister. Regardless of the quality of the relationship with the actual sister in comparison to the person that’s “like” a sister.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

I just don’t see it that way. There’s more to the self than dictionary definitions and our interactions and feelings matter more. Sounds like you disagree and there’s no more bedrock to go.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

There is absolutely more to self than dictionary definitions.

But some senses of self exist solely because of fact and material reality.

Actual motherhood is literally a provable, verifiable fact.

You can claim the identity of a mother I suppose, you can claim any identity you choose, it’s still not going to ever make someone who is not a mother a mother.

I genuinely don’t get how you can’t acknowledge that. It’s just a basic truth.

Someon can absolutely be a mother figure, a stand in for a mother- that still doesn’t make them a mother if they don’t have their own children. And it doesn’t make them literally your mother unless they legally make it so or they birthed you.

I just don’t get why you always just go with “we see it differently” instead of actually addressing and debating what we say. You know what a mother is. I presume you’re intelligent enough to understand the concept of a mother figure. I don’t get why you’d choose to conflate the two for argument’s sake when you should see how flimsy it is.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I think you are so married to dictionary definitions that it keeps you from acknowledging how people actually live. When you reach a fundamental belief that’s different then someone changes or there’s nothing left to debate about. We have different beliefs about the nature of words and the nature of identity. That won’t change so why keep gnawing on that particular bone?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

explain the difference between a mother and a mother figure

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Explain the difference between a friend and a best friend.

It’s subjective and personal. Not quantifiable.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Lmao this is such bullshit

A friend is not the same as mother lol

A friend is someone you enjoy spending time with, someone whose presence you enjoy. A best friend is usually understood to be the friend you are closest to. Either way, a friend is friend and a mother is an obviously very specific and unrelated relationship.

So again- can you explain the difference between a mother and a mother figure?

Or at least explain why you are so reluctant to explain the difference?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I just said it’s subjective and personal and can’t be quantified. Personal relationships can’t be broken down like that.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Are you seriously going to pretend that you don’t understand the difference between a bio/adoptive mother and someone who is neither of those things but someone you see as a motherly figure?!

You’re unbelievable lol