Identity

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

I just don’t see it that way. There’s more to the self than dictionary definitions and our interactions and feelings matter more. Sounds like you disagree and there’s no more bedrock to go.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

There is absolutely more to self than dictionary definitions.

But some senses of self exist solely because of fact and material reality.

Actual motherhood is literally a provable, verifiable fact.

You can claim the identity of a mother I suppose, you can claim any identity you choose, it’s still not going to ever make someone who is not a mother a mother.

I genuinely don’t get how you can’t acknowledge that. It’s just a basic truth.

Someon can absolutely be a mother figure, a stand in for a mother- that still doesn’t make them a mother if they don’t have their own children. And it doesn’t make them literally your mother unless they legally make it so or they birthed you.

I just don’t get why you always just go with “we see it differently” instead of actually addressing and debating what we say. You know what a mother is. I presume you’re intelligent enough to understand the concept of a mother figure. I don’t get why you’d choose to conflate the two for argument’s sake when you should see how flimsy it is.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I think you are so married to dictionary definitions that it keeps you from acknowledging how people actually live. When you reach a fundamental belief that’s different then someone changes or there’s nothing left to debate about. We have different beliefs about the nature of words and the nature of identity. That won’t change so why keep gnawing on that particular bone?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

explain the difference between a mother and a mother figure

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Explain the difference between a friend and a best friend.

It’s subjective and personal. Not quantifiable.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Lmao this is such bullshit

A friend is not the same as mother lol

A friend is someone you enjoy spending time with, someone whose presence you enjoy. A best friend is usually understood to be the friend you are closest to. Either way, a friend is friend and a mother is an obviously very specific and unrelated relationship.

So again- can you explain the difference between a mother and a mother figure?

Or at least explain why you are so reluctant to explain the difference?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I just said it’s subjective and personal and can’t be quantified. Personal relationships can’t be broken down like that.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Are you seriously going to pretend that you don’t understand the difference between a bio/adoptive mother and someone who is neither of those things but someone you see as a motherly figure?!

You’re unbelievable lol

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I know the difference legally. I’m saying to some people it doesn’t matter. And their feelings are just as important.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I didn’t ask about the legal difference- I’m asking what is the difference between someone who is actually a mother and someone you see as a mother?

You act as if saying someone is your mother makes it factually so and it doesn’t. Feelings don’t matter in this because a mother is a very specific thing and I promise you anyone who is a mother figure to a child/person that is not theirs (through biology or adoption) does not hold you in the same regard they do their actual children, even if they love you deeply. I say this as a Mother who has acted as a stand in for children who have shitty mothers. I love them, would do all I could for them- the love and bond I have with my actual children is a thousand times stronger and different in many ways.

Those surrogate connections matter to some people on a personal level. It doesn’t mean it’s relevant outside of on a personal level.

Motherhood is a fact. Not being an actual mother is a fact as well.

Again- how you personally see yourself or the people in your life is very different from what’s actually true and fact based.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What makes feelings more important to defining language than clear accurate terminology that communicates the specific idea the word refers to?