Both: How would you define my sexual orientation?

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

I’m not having the definition discussion again. We’ve been there.

You are the one saying that it is some accident of biology that should control the sum total of all my interactions including what I’m called and how I’m treated, rather than who I am.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

I didn’t start a definition conversation lmao you’re just deflecting and avoiding my point. I said nothing about how being male dictates your interactions what you’re called or how you’re treated. I literally said only you did that to yourself.

I literally only fucking said that you identifying as a woman is no different from Trump identifying as the last election’s winner because in order for you to call yourself a woman or claim to identify as one tou have to completely ignore what the word means and what you knew a fucking woman to even be when you claimed us for an identity.

Im sure you’ll continue to ignore my point and even pretend I said some shit I didn’t say, but all that matters to me is that I get my point across clearly so it’s apparent that you’re avoiding dealing with it, so deflect away boo

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

I said nothing about how being male dictates your interactions what you’re called or how you’re treated.

It’s your whole point. You want us treated “like men” under the law, where we can go, what we can do. You want us referred to by male pronouns. Hell you have said you debate whether medical transition should even be allowed at all so you even want us trapped in those Ill fit bodies. You want one chromosome to determine the whole of our interactions.

This isn’t your first post sloan. I see what you write.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

Again- not what I said.

I did say I don’t think “transition” is effective and I question if it’s ethical- I also regularly say that I don’t give a fuck what you do to your body as long as you are an adult. Since you see what I wrote its odd you’d leave that part out when whenever I say the former I also always mention the caveat of me not giving a single fuck.

I truly also don’t give a fuck how anyone treats you, I never said you had to be treated “like a man”.

I said, and say all the time, that you shouldn’t be at all allowed to invade female spaces, disrupt our rights, and claim our actual lived reality for yourself. Because you are not the same as a woman. And that truth matters a lot for women.

The fact of the matter is that TW are literally not women. It just is the truth and I want that truth respected because not respecting it is harmful to 51% of the population.

Trans people can do whatever the fuck they want to their bodies and call themselves whatever they want and say they’ve been “treated”- I truly don’t give a fuck. They shouldn’t be allowed to hold the rest of us hostage to their mental illness and refusal or inability to accept reality.

That doesn’t mean people won’t be polite and call you what you want, it doesn’t mean you dont deserve the same human rights as everyone else, it just means people shouldn’t be forced to play along if they don’t believe, and your demands shouldn’t be prioritized over other protected classes’ (women’s) needs and rights.

I literally want equality. You want special treatment for being trans.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

I am positive I have seen you directly say you weren’t certain whether medical transition should be allowed at all.

truly also don’t give a fuck how anyone treats you, I never said you had to be treated “like a man”.

You want us legally indistinct from men and with the same access to anything as men.

Equality requires rights for trans people to compensate for marginalization and to prevent active discrimination. As with many other marginalized classes. It’s not “special treatment” it’s ensuring actual equality.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Again- I have said I don’t know whether or not I think transition should be a form of treatment. And I listed why and nobody has ever even attempted to discuss my whys and address the concerns I have. Just because I question whether it should or shouldn’t be an option doesn’t mean I in any way push for it to not be an option. Because as I have said time and time again- whether it’s ethical or not, if you’re an adult idgaf. I don’t question whether or not an adult should be allowed to alter their body however they choose- I question if that is effective at treating a mental illness, or whether it makes the illness worse in some ways.

I want you legally separated from female people/women because you aren’t one. I want female spaces to remain for female people. Doesn’t mean you can’t advocate for your own spaces. Doesn’t mean you can’t advocate for TW to be distinguished as a subcategory of males (because that’s literally what TW are) who need special protections.

Equality means trans people have their own spaces, sports etc and the same human rights as everyone else. It absolutely does not mean you get to take my rights from me.

Giving select males access to female spaces and allowing them to falsify legal documents is either male privilege or special treatment. Take your pick.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Equality means trans people have their own spaces, sports etc and the same human rights as everyone else.

No it doesn’t. It’s denying equality or opportunity. Let’s take sports as an example. You know I’m against trans women particapating in sports but for the sake of argument. Having a trans division or league on paper doesn’t do anything because there will never be enough trans people to play. That’s not equality, it’s illusory.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

  1. So because there may not be enough trans people for their own leave women and girls should be denied their own leagues?

This is my biggest issue- the absence of something for trans people doesn’t justify them taking it from the people it does exist for. Especially when they fought for themselves to get it in the first place, or it was given to them for a specific and still relevant reason.

  1. You can make a trans league on a professional level, there are enough for that, people relocate for professional sports all the time. You can also make a non professional team/league of trans and non binary people or even trans and people who aren’t trans who want to include them. And then the other sex based leagues can exist.

There is literally no way for female people to have equal rights if males can claim the rights in place specifically for females to have equality for themselves.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

There literally aren’t. There have been 2 trans women mma fighters. 2. And they are in different weight classes. Not that they should be in women’s mma but my point stands. 2. Ever.

This is part of my problem. You argue as If trans people have massive power and there are billions of us. We are a weak and beaten down minority, pretending we aren’t doesn’t serve equality. It serves inequality.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

There is literally no way for female people to have equal rights if males can claim the rights in place specifically for females to have equality for themselves.

That’s honestly my main point. Whether or not you are a beaten down minority is kind of irrelevant to the fact that women’s rights shouldn’t be impacted in any way for you.

Maybe that leaves you in a bad position, it still shouldn’t be the responsibility of a group of people who have nothing to do with you do be any part of any solutions for you. Women/females should have always been left alone.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

And listing is as males necessarily exposes us to danger and prejudicial action. It’s a free pass for systemic oppression.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

It’s factually accurate.

Listing males as females is forcing women to be classed with their oppressors.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Listing trans women with men is forcing trans women to be classed with their oppressors.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

How so?