QT: Do women have a right to boundaries?

submitted by Penultimate_Penance from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

Again if that’s the stance, take it, not everyone cares about harm to other people. But my issue is with the denial that we are harmed at all which OP absolutely made.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Sure, but do you think women deserve to have their own spaces away from men like you transwomen?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I’m not clear what you are asking. Do you mean for trans women?

In that case I’ve said repeatedly single occupancy neutral spaces would be better. I’m obviously not unfamiliar with being uncomfortable being around men while vulnerable. That’s the whole safety concern I’m talking about.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I’m chiming in on your convo with Another poster.

I understand that you think single space occupancy is ideal. My question is, regardless of your preference or even your needs, do you think that women deserve to be able to have spaces that are exclusively just for women (women meaning adult female humans)?

It’s a simple yes or no question.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

It’s not a yes or no question. Because I don’t believe including us would take anything away but it’s also not what I’m advocating for.

I can see why you would want that in things like locker rooms and bathrooms and in the event that there were safe alternatives for trans people I could see the argument for excluding us, but op also talked about things like hobby groups which seems like a discrimiation issue but also why would you want to be involved in a social situation where you weren’t wanted? It’s not as simple as a yes or no on that level.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sounds like a no, you don’t think women have a right to their own spaces. It’s not okay for a male to tell females that including males doesn’t take anything away from females- you’re just not in a position to make that claim, because you’re the one wanting to be included despite not fitting the criteria, for lack of better phrasing. It’s not about how you feel, it’s about how the women in the space you want to be included in feel. If it’s a hobby group specifically for women, that means the women in the group wanted to be in a group that was just for women. It’s not discriminatory to not want males in a group specifically for women, when letting in males undermines the whole point of the group. I get that you want it to be complicated, but it’s not. You either think women should be allowed to have their own spaces, or you don’t. It really seems like you don’t.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

To me, I am a woman, so my inclusion doesn’t effect whether it is a woman’s space or not. You disagree. I don’t know that there’s anywhere to go from that fundamental level or disagreement.

You want me defined by genetics, I want to be defined by who I am. I don’t know that there’s ground to be found between those to be found.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The question was specifically do you think women have a right to spaces away from transwomen. So even if you consider yourself a woman, you’d still be trans. You can define yourself as who you are- but who you are is still male and you’d still be considered trans.

I don’t think we need to “go” anywhere from here. I asked if you thought women have a right to their own spaces- you basically said no. And it seems to me that your “no” is because you consider yourself a woman, so it doesn’t matter how the women in whatever space feel or how they see you, even though it’s literally their space you want to be included in.