ALL: Would removing "real life experience" requirements from trans healthcare benefit everyone?

submitted by ntr4ctrAdult Male with gender dysphoria from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

I don’t think it would benefit females at all since males enter our spaces and claim to be women even with their penises. I agree with Houseplant that surgery shouldn’t be considered a cure for mental illness, but whether they “live like a woman” or not, males transitioning will always cause problems for females. There may be a few men like you, and I appreciate that you can acknowledge the ridiculousness of the idea of men “living as women”, but you are a rarity. Removing the barrier would just make it easier for TW to invade female spaces, not even, really, since it’s already insanely easy for them. I don’t really see a way to avoid the majority of TW thinking they’re entitled to female spaces or claiming to use those spaces for safety reasons.

The only way to help females is to keep female spaces for females.

The thing is, whether they have to “live like a woman” or not before surgery, most of them will use female spaces after the surgery, which would now be easier for them to obtain.

I will say, since these surgeries are available, the only people who should be considered for them should be people who can acknowledge that they aren’t women and are men. People who can’t accept reality shouldn’t be getting these surgeries imo. What I mean to say is, I think rather than “living like a woman”, TW should have to accept, admit, and acknowledge that they are not women and are men, and that these procedures and hormones won’t change that fact. If they can’t do that, I don’t see how they are mentally stable enough for the surgeries. I’m sure that’s gonna upset a lot of qt but that’s how I feel.

[–]ntr4ctrAdult Male with gender dysphoria[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I will say, since these surgeries are available, the only people who should be considered for them should be people who can acknowledge that they aren’t women and are men.

The problem is, right now, it's the reverse. Men are required to call themselves women in order to get these surgeries, and to have experience "living as women" (i.e. impersonating women and invading female spaces).

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Do you really believe most transwomen are forced to ~identify as women~?

Cause no. They identify as women and get the surgery in a poor attempt to make their bodies match their imagination.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Only one tenth of people who identify as women did or want to do surgery. So majority are just on cross-sex hormones and sometimes not even that.

[–]ntr4ctrAdult Male with gender dysphoria[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

They are forced to if they want to get the surgery, yes. It's a standard requirement that patients must "live as their preferred gender" (i.e. pretend to be women) for a year before getting genital removal.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nope. Most identify as women long before they demand their titty skittles or surgery.

You are wrong and asking random women on the internet to do you personal favours and vote how you want and it’s based on a wrong assumption. Nice one.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I know- I’m saying that’s what I disagree with

[–]ntr4ctrAdult Male with gender dysphoria[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So would you be amenable to removing this requirement?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In an ideal world, qualified professionals would push for and find alternative and less extreme treatments, but since transitioning is what people claim is a “cure” or treatment, I would say that if 1. The patient can acknowledge their sex, and that they are not transitioning to the opposite sex/gender, that their sex will not and cannot change and this procedure is purely to alleviate dysphoria and 2. If they are male, they agree to leave female spaces (and sports etc) alone, then yes, I’d be fine with those two points, coupled with a diagnosis of dysphoria, being the requirements for the procedure. I was only saying I agree that to me, altering the external isn’t a cure for the internal. But idgaf what adults do to themselves, provided they are mentally sound.

This way, though, females retain female spaces- though I’m sure many TW who pass or think they do would still invade spaces, at least we’d be able to tell an obvious male to remove himself from our spaces.

[–]adungitit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

most of them will use female spaces after the surgery, which would now be easier for them to obtain.

Don't they get counted as female either way, surgery or no surgery?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

So you would deny the only effective treatment for genital Dysphoria to the majority of sufferers of one sex because they disagree with you philosophically?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I disagree with it ethically as well. And I disagree with it being the only effective treatment. But as I’ve said so many times- I don’t give a fuck what a grown person does to their body. I simply think they should be rational and mentally healthy when they do it. And I think it changes nothing significant, so males should stay out of female spaces regardless of what they do to their bodies.

And it’s not just one sex, I feel that females should be mentally stable before getting these types of surgeries as well.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Can you produce any ethical study saying there’s another way to cure genital Dysphoria? Or a statement from a trans person who had their genital Dysphoria successfully cured?

It’s the only effective treatment. And even if you don’t think it should matter legally or anything else it still changes something significant, it makes life tolerable. That’s what should matter when you are talking about care.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Okay- if it’s the only treatment, I still think that patients should be able to acknowledge and agree to what I said before being operated on. So if someone with the mental illness of dysphoria can acknowledge the things I mentioned, as I said, snip away all you want as long as they are an adult. I can keep rewording this but I’m basically saying the same thing, masks.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Also- I didn’t deny them shit. I said they should be able to acknowledge reality. If they can do that, snip away for all I care.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It’s not a question of reality. None of us thing we magically get X chromosomes. It’s a semantic disagreement and because someone disagrees with you, you would deny them care. How is that justifiable to you?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It is a question of reality. The word woman has a meaning that explicitly exists to exclude males. TW are not women. If they can’t accept this if they can’t understand this, to me- they are not of sound mind and shouldn’t be having surgeries. You can try to twist it all you want, but I think it’s infinitely more unjustifiable to allow people who can’t handle the truth to have surgeries like this. You can keep asking me- my answer is never going to change.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

It’s a question of semantics. The material world exists as it exists no matter what you call it. You are arguing language and then saying anyone who disagree with you is denying reality.

You would have denied me the only reason I’m still alive because we disagree with each other and I would never call myself a man. There’s not much else to say.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The material world does indeed exist as it exists, no matter what you call yourself. Women are female. Males are not and cannot be women. It’s biology. It’s reality. It’s the truth whether you accept it or not. The language exists to define and describe reality. Its not disagreeing with me- it’s literally disagreeing with the meaning of the word. The word was made to define a type of human that you are not and will never be able to be. Sorry that you can’t handle it. It doesn’t make it untrue. The fact that you can’t accept it and push for the things you’ve pushed for and said the things you’ve said in the past is precisely why I feel how I feel. You want to know the truth- you, masks, specifically, are the reason I became this extreme. Your words and your stances got me here more than anyone else I’ve ever interacted with on this subject.

I stand by what I said, accuse me of whatever you want, and hope that GB or that other poster that always backs you up shows up to upvote you, I guess.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

You are a deeply hateful person and I give up.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lmao the fact that you think yourself to be less hateful than me is hilarious. You literally told sexual assault survivors that we were wrong for being unwilling to tend to our rapists wounds if we defended ourselves from them. Bye

Imagine thinking people should be mentally stable and able to accept reality is hateful lol