QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex?

submitted by SnowAssMan from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

So if I lose my boobs to cancer I’m less woman? More male? Extremely offensive.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (22 children)

No, the terms Male and female aren’t a part of the model. It would be more/less virilized/feminized

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

But either way, in this scenario you’d call me less of a woman. Humans develop to produce one of two possible gametes. Male or female. The spectrum is unnecessary, and overly complicated a very simple system for no purpose other than appeasing some hurt feelings.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (20 children)

I can’t call you a woman at all, if the category doesn’t exist.

Humans don’t develop to produce gametes as that implies an intent that is absent in nature. Humans simply develop and some but not all develop gametes.

The spectrum exists because the Binary model breaks down in some cases and thus doesn’t accurately reflect reality

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Nah, I’m a woman. I expect to be called such. So humans, unlike every other species that reproduces, don’t have discrete sex groups? What is the third gamete? Do humans reproduce via sperm meeting egg or not?

Bearded women are still females, men with tits are still males. They don’t develop the potential to produce another gamete. You are straight up wrong about sex. You never respond to half of what’s asked you.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (13 children)

Nope because again sex isn’t based on gametes or else people who can’t produce gametes don’t have a sex. In every species sex is a spectrum. Also even you would admit not every species that reproduces has discrete sex groups.

Nope male and female don’t objectively exist. Also that’s because half the stuff you say is stuff I’ve already answered but you refuse to accept.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Mkay. Stay wrong.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I honestly can’t believe what I just read (the whole thread).

Just... wow.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I weep for the state of people’s education.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Bless your heart

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Nope because again sex isn’t based on gametes or else people who can’t produce gametes don’t have a sex. In every species sex is a spectrum. Also even you would admit not every species that reproduces has discrete sex groups.

Nope male and female don’t objectively exist. Also that’s because half the stuff you say is stuff I’ve already answered but you refuse to accept.

What is this tosh? Sex isn't "a spectrum in every species" as you state. No one is saying that discrete sex occurs in every known species that reproduces. We're saying it exists in species that reproduce sexually.

Nor is anyone saying that "people who can't produce gametes don't have a sex." Prior to puberty, neither male or female humans can produce or mature and release viable gametes. After menopause, female humans don't have viable gametes. Males with infertility or who've lost their testes can't produce viable gametes. None of this changes our sex - which is defined as developing in utero to have the capacity at some point in time to produce either ova or sperm.

You say

male and female don’t objectively exist.

Wonder what your mum and dad and grandparents would say about this.

Hundreds of millions of women now on earth who've been pregnant, had abortions and miscarriages, carried pregnancies to term given birth, breastfed no longer have viable gametes. Yet by your definition we/they are not women.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You don’t know about plant speggs? Or echidna oovatazoa? So many more options than male and female hahahaha

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, not women

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Males and females are very good groups to separate, because males and females have different between groups but same withing their group a lot of things: skeletal structure, reproduction system, bone structure and density, lungs size (with same weigth and height), heart size, metabolism, oxigenization, reaction to pills, reaction to diseases, unique diseases affecting only one of sexes, muscle structure, ability to produce or sustain one kind of gametrs somewhere in life, ability to gave birth, and so on. All those things are very distinctly and strongly different between male and female groups, and at same time similar between all males and simikar between all females. And if we add social aspect - then added social ezperience is very different, like 200 millions of girls are killed in first few days or aborted in many parts of the world, as parents want boy, while transwomen are boys in womb - so not experjencing this. 98-100% of rapists are males, 85% of rape victims are females. And so on. In medicine, society, statistics and safeguarding it is very important to have this two very distinctly different groups. And it have no sense to grouop differently, as different kind of groups would not have so much in common within group and so much different between groups.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Sexism plain and simple

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, SEXism.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

people who can’t produce gametes

Which people are these?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just what it says. People who are sterile

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"sterile" meaning what exactly? Normally a man can be pronounced infertile even though he produces gametes. It's just that his sperm is "low quality". Are there men who don't produce gametes?

[–]SilverSlippers 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Humans don’t develop to produce gametes as that implies an intent that is absent in nature.

Actually in a purely biological/evolutionary sense we do exist to produce gametes. The sole evolutionary purpose of any feature is to increase the changes of successful reproduction. Making babies the the only intent in nature.

The 'binary model breaking down' is actually variety of mechanisms that cause embryos to fail to develop properly, not new sexes or in-between sexes or whatever you think exists. People with intersex conditions are 100% worthy human beings who deserve all the same rights as anyone else. However, from a biological perspective, they are evolutionary dead ends.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I’ll have to call up all the philosophers and tell them we’ve found objective meaning in the universe and it’s to produce gametes! /s

[–]SilverSlippers 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I wasn't talking about 'meaning in the universe' or any of that philosophical nonsense. I was talking about the point of life from a biological perspective; which is evolution. Our bodies, our brains, everything about us and every other organism on this planet evolved to be good a making copies of themselves. The universe is meaningless, just following the laws of physics. Living things are the only matter in the universe that have any sense of purpose - which is to copy themselves.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, all living things have as their paramount purpose the perpetuation and preservation of their own species. Evolutionary theorists clarified the mechanisms and reasons for this, but the fact that it's a basic drive/instinct has been articulated since humans started composing oral and written narratives. From tribal genealogies going back centuries to the Biblical dictate to "go forth and multiply."

And the aim of sexual reproduction isn't just for organisms to "make copies of themselves," it's to exchange genetic material with another being of the same species but somewhat different DNA so that the offspring and ensuing generation(s) might have slight genetic alterations that improve the chance of individuals and the entire species surviving.

[–]SilverSlippers 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. This is a better way of putting what I was trying to get at.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

No, sex characteristics are different to gender identity. Likewise, most castrated males are men. A small number are trans, including some trans women, some nonbinary people, and eunuchs.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Eh, according to the poster, it means less female. Gender didn’t even come into it.