Discuss with just facts?

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]SnowAssMan 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

  1. cough Karen White cough. That's no argument. Why not allow gay men into women's spaces too, since they don't pose a threat "either"?

  2. If Caitlyn Jenner could win gold in the men's decathlon, trans-womxyn will be fine in men's sports.

  3. So every straight woman in a relationship with a trans-woman has to identify as bisexual? So every lesbian in a relationship with a trans-man has to identify as bisexual? There is no rational reason to describe trans-womxyn attracted to men as homosexual.

  4. And gender identity is not self identification, it's a product of socialisation. Trans people's gendered upbringing matched their sex, hence why their gendered behaviour matches their sex: crime, suicide, media representation etc. the sex ratios are consistent regardless of identification.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

  1. At minimum gay men are physically superior to trans women and aren’t equivalent dangers.

  2. She didn’t do it on hormones or post surgery.

  3. They don’t have to identify as anything. It’s each persons place to label their own sexuality.

  4. That’s not correct. Even the oft quoted Swedish study found a reduction in criminality in the layer cohort.

[–]SnowAssMan 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

  1. No, I'm saying, even if you could prove that some sub-set of men don't pose a danger to women, that wouldn't be an argument to make single-sex spaces unisex. They ought not exist if they are unisex. The idea that gay men pose a threat to women is totally made up on your part btw. Them being physically more powerful is no excuse, seeing as trans-womxyn are physically stronger than women too. Trans-womxyn still pose a rape threat, like Karen White, unlike gay men.

  2. How is that the least bit relevant? If Jenner can win gold in men's sports then why on Earth should she not play in men's sports? It makes no sense.

  3. lol no trans-womxyn who insists on being called a lesbian would ever allow their gf to identify as straight.

  4. compare like with like, if men commit the vast majority of crimes compared to women, then trans-men should be the ones who commit the vast majority of crimes compared to trans-womxyn, but that isn't the case.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. Violence comes in forms other than rape and yes gay men are stronger than trans women therefore more dangerous. In addition mens propensity to violence and general hatred of trans women means we are at an extreme danger in isolated men’s spaces. You are just discounting our safety entirely so you aren’t talking about overall safety.

  2. Because we are talking about hormone controlled or even post op trans women. They can’t hope to compete with men and it would be intractably dangerous for them to try given their weakness and almost certain targeting for injury based on transphobia among “manly men”.

  3. I literally have spoken with couples that use those labels. You are just being wildly closed minded here.

  4. I can’t speak to anything about trans men. I’m not one and don’t claim to know anything about them. I respect their identities but I cannot understand on any level someone wanting to be manly or a man. More power to them but I do not get it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

cough Karen White cough. That's no argument. Why not allow gay men into women's spaces too, since they don't pose a threat "either"?

If they truly didn't pose a threat than gay men should be allowed in. Overall safety should be the goal.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There many causes when gay men were still attacking women, just not rape them. So they are "safer" to women than other males in general, but safer does not mean "completely safe".

And allowing everyone in women's toilets is not a solution. Public women's toilets already have 2 times less spaces than men's toilets (because of urinals), women's toilets are used for menstrual needs as well, so women will use toilet longer on average, more often, and require more safety, and at same time women whave two times less places already. So putting more people to go into women's toilets will make situation even worse for women, as there can appear deficit of places.

Men need to sort out violence between themselves, to protect gay and gnc men much better, and de-stigmatize them in society. "Just combine them with women" is not the solution, and will fix nothing, only hurt women in long run. Women has nothing to do in men versus men problems, so it is just wrong to use women as shield in that fight.