all 22 comments

[–]Antarchomachus 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't know what you Christians believe, but I've read the New Testament, and Jesus Christ certainly would not have advocated for anything like this.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It doesn't matter to them, they think Jesus is a weak effeminate sin-tolerator and don't listen to a word he says. Identity politics and "The Bible" are their god.

[–]FlippyKing 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You ask a question, but your use of the word "really" indicates that you have a source that is saying this. Minus the word "really", one could either answer "no" or yes" and be done with your question. I answer "no", minus the "really".

Christians follow Jesus and place their faith in in the belief that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heave after his murder at the hands of the state and by way of collusion of worldly power. Such worldly power is considered to be wielded by satan, where death and pain and public humiliation are not the end and not even to be feared, but instead to be expected as we seek His Kingdom which is not a kingdom of these worldly powers. So, rather than believe in murdering non-believers, Christians would praise God and pray for non-believers as the non-believers murder them-- not that those are always the only two choices given.

Some NT verses indicate that it would be better for someone to die, perhaps (edited to add that word and say I don't have the specific verses in mind) even to kill the person, than let them sin and break their connection to Sanctification and with God and redemption. But, I have never read those as saying to do that, but just that it emphasizes the gravity of the circumstance. Salvation is about our souls, not our earthly lives at present.

There is a lot of killing in the old testament. I try to separate out when God is actually saying it is a good thing, or when he is testing people, like when Abraham is tested to see if he would kill his own son for God. As bad as that event is, it is important to recognize a couple of things.

One is that the worship of Moloch and his consort Ashteroth involved a lot of sex rituals and the murder of children. Child sacrifice was common among some people. Some think the Etruscans and the Carthaginians brought the Phoenician practice of child sacrifice to the western Mediterranean as groups of them figured they could start a colony away from neighbors who attacked them for that practice. The OT is especially harsh in dealing with this practice, and other civilizations in the area who were cruel conquerors are not condemned as this practice is. (the other thing worth remembering is tangential to this topic, but it is the simple fact that God sacrificed his Word made flesh, doing what Abraham only had to be willing to do. Mary suffered what Abraham did not. Israel did not get a military leader to overthrow Rome and show the iron age world who's boss. We got nothing but an assurance that glory or happiness or comfort or accolades in this life are not the point ever.)

This ties into the specific groups that the bible describes God telling the Israelites to wipe out, which sounds really bad but Michael Heiser makes the case that these are all groups associated with the Nephilim. If the Nephilim were wiped out, then we have no real context to understand such campaigns today. This also presumes the Nephilim were real. But if one presumes they were not, then one could equally presume the stories are not real. It seems difficult to presume the stories real but the Nephilim not real. Archaeological evidence of such destruction might be sparse, but that is often the case and needles do occasionally end up in haystacks regardless of how tough they are to find.

So, I don't know in what context you are using "really", but really Christians do not believe in murdering non-believers. The Crusades were against a force that was aggressively attacking Christendom, and also involved east-west Christian fighting which still weighs heavily on attempts to heal the schism between them. Much bad happened in the Crusades, but they are more complicated than currently believed in popular culture and not completely unjustified as one look at how Islam deals with women or non-believers would show. The Spanish Inquisition and other such events, like how Jan Hus was dealt with, I think are big problems. I do not like the idea that the church can pass some decree or sentence and the civil authorities carrying out are the ones doing the killing. It is a repetition, especially typologically, of the tag-team between temple priests and Roman authority condemning Christ.

People often do bad things, even Christians and even those who claim to act in the name of God or the Church. A big part of Catholicism is accepting that "the Church" has often had very very bad leaders not just now but across history. Such bad leaders are meant, by the worldly powers, to make us see the those bad leaders as if they were the Church. This has lead to a lot of division and lot of problems that have been seized upon by wordly powers. The biggest difference between Jan Hus and Martin Luther is that political leaders saw a chance for increased freedom and centralized power in Luther where they didn't catch the same opening when Hus was alive. It is probably more complicated than that, but that is a factor. You go from questioning "works" to beheading women who won't give Henry the VIII a son and to his daughter being advised by a guy, John Dee, who was talking to fallen angels that wanted his partner's elderly wife to have sex with John or some weird voyeuristic trip that came through their "scrying" sessions.

[–]Cornfed 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've never heard of any religious reason to kill non-Christians simply for being non-Christians.

[–]IkeConn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hence the Spanish Inquisition. They helped people find God. One way or another.

[–]Cornfed 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Eh, the Inquisition rooted out Jews pretending to be Christians. That is a good thing.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolutely not, but most people nowadays will probably tell you we do. In fact it's almost all of them at this point. "Christian" is now a political platform. For the past couple of years churches have preached about nothing but stances on current culture war issues. They now insist on a works salvation because otherwise they can't judge others or boast in their self righteousness. People from 20 years ago would be shocked. Just like how men are increasingly misogynistic and interested in fascism in response to oppression from the feminazi elites, as Jordan Peterson notes, so too are Christians in response to similar oppression.

According to Christians now, Jesus's commandments are to be dismissed because they are "weak" and "effeminate" and "too tolerant of sin". Instead they advocate for the exact opposite, always hating your enemy and punishing others without mercy and glorying in your superiority. And they want strong human authority (as long as they get to be in charge). If being the literal opposite of Jesus is Christian then I don't know what isn't. I'm increasingly tempted to drop the label myself.

On a positive note though, this drastic turn of events led me to investigate some things I'd have never considered had I not been forced to counter this wave of evil. I uncovered a lot more than I could ever dream of, bullshit that has been building up and used to extort and control the gullible masses for centuries, even from the very beginning. I now have reason to believe that even many books of the Bible are malicious forgeries, and apparently not in disagreement with many Christian and Jewish sects in the first century AD. Or God himself as he complains about such problems in Jeremiah 7-8, or Jesus as he rebukes several laws of the Torah as the work of "scribes and Pharisees". Note that Jeremiah is almost always falsely translated to conceal what God has to say about these books. Because then they would have to follow Jesus's commandment and not cherry-pick verses from an arbitrarily-decided canon to support all their evil theologies like Pharisees.

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Removed for advocating violence. Do not advocate murder on saidit.

[–]Cornfed 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

That is completely retarded. Why even bother to have a platform if you are going to retardedly moderate it? There already is a reddit.

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

"Do we really believe in murdering x?" is advocating violence which is against saidit rules. And it's also clearly a troll post.

[–]Cornfed 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

It is not advocating anything - it is posing a question, to which the poster and everyone else is answering "No". It would not be advocating a specific offense anyway. There is no suggestion of killing any specific definable person. By this reasoning, any political action can't be discussed, since politics by definition involves violence. Questions like "should we go to war with Russia" couldn't be discussed, for example.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

It is saying "I know we murder non-believers, but is this a good idea?"

It implicitly has the assumption murder is a good idea.

There's a huge difference between "Should we go to war with Russia?" and "I know we murder Russians, but is that a good idea?" The latter is clearly against saidit rules while the former is not.

[–]Cornfed 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Neither statement would be taken as advocating unlawful violence by any rational definition.

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I disagree, it does advocate violence, saying that murder is appropriate is the implicit assumption of the post, so the post has been removed.

[–]Cornfed 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I'm going to cease posting on your shitty platform and encourage others to do likewise. We don't need more censorship promoting dickheads.

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

That is your choice. Removing trolls advocating murder isn't censorship. If anything, it keeps saidit online because we're less likely to get in legal trouble. So it's preventing this website from being censored.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I don't think that's his own assumption, I feel like he's disappointed that too many here do believe that. Hence the really?

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

He said "we".

He said "do we really believe this?" as if it has been a long-held belief of his that he's now questioning. If he viewed the murderers as an outgroup, he would've said "Do Christians hold this view?" or "Do some Christians hold this view?"

Acting like not murdering someone is a novel idea, is not only an obvious troll post, but is coming in with the default stance of "murder is okay", which is against saidit rules of advocating violence.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It sounds to me like he disagrees with murder and sees himself as the outgroup. "We" is meant to address Christendom in general, which he is also a part of but that does not make him 100% in agreement with them.

You could be right but I think the language is confusing and it's kind of jumping to a conclusion. Although I can see why we need to err on the side of caution, especially these days.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't look too closely, but to me it looks more confrontational toward those who would advocate that kind of murder, to the contrary of advocating it.