MISANDRYWhy you shouldn't support feminism at all

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[–]Alienhunter糞大名 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I'll agree that the feminist movement is a deeply flawed movement filled with very hateful people on the fringes of society and that has always been the case be it 1st wave feminism, the suffragette movement, etc.

But to your average schmuck first wave feminism suffragette movement and the rest basically just represents the idea that "women should have equal legal rights to men" in the sense that women should be able to own property, take public office, vote, and not be restricted from the public life. Is that feminism? I'd argue it's not really but many people think that's what 1st wave feminism entails.

So far as conservatives saying they support 1st wave feminism that's more a defensive response to progressive accusations that conservatives want to enforce some semblance of handmaidens tale, while you'll see extreme religious conservatives such as Muslims and more extreme Mennonite aligned factions take positions similar to this it's far from a common or mainstream viewpoint.

The main issue with hardline feminists is that they hate themselves, they hate men, they hate other women, they aren't content with their lives for whatever reason and constantly feel the need to upend the status quo and drag the rest of society into their misery. The only thing that keeps them from being absolute pariahs on the fringes of society is the underlying feminist organizational structure and ideological drive but you'll even see within feminist groups the petty infighting and general stupidity and lack of strong leadership eventually renders them all ineffectual. It's really a fascinating development and the hilarity of some of the things they come up with truly should not be forgotten. Political lesbianism being one of my absolute favorites. You see echos of it now with the new "I refuse to have sex at all because Roe got overturned" online activism trends. But sure, the conservatives want to stop you from having sex ostensibly to control you so you're going to not have sex to show them? Genius move. You're going to get your boyfriend out to campaign for women's rights by refusing to sleep with him? Sure honey, or will it be that he decides to date a woman with no such hangups instead?

[–]meisthebigdumbTransracial BlackX Rockgender Bispecies[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

When many influential members of a movement are actual extremists who genuinely want men to die, along with a large amount of the movement's supporters believing the superiority of women, yes, I am against feminism and it's retarded. Even if I agree that women should be treated with equal dignity, because feminism fundamentally rejects reality, which is that men and women are not equal due to biological differences (does not mean that one of the sexes is inferior), feminism is a delusional ideology full of retards which does not make me support it at all.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree but I think it's important to point out that your average schmuck doesn't get into the weeds of feminist theory and will think feminism = women's legal equality (in the sense that the law should be blind to whether someone is a woman or not in most situations as it's irrelevant to whether or not someone is fit to vote, own property, etc.) I don't think this argument entails that there are no differences between men and women. Rather the law should merely treat both the same for most practical purposes with very few exceptions.

Feminism I don't believe promotes an idea of equality though many claim that. Most feminist theory I've read very much likes to point out the inherent differences and lack of equality between men and women and may be better described as female supremacist theory. Which is essentially just the opposite of male chauvinist attitudes. You see this in attitudes like "wouldn't things be better if women ran the world there would be less wars etc" which is a laughably naive and extremely sexist take on the world.

Of course it's definitely right to point out the rediculousness of hardline feminist arguments and the double standards as well as sexist stawman archetypes it is based on. But most discussions I've had with self described feminists it becomes clear to me they aren't at all aware of the hardline insane side of the feminist sphere and are all just very girl power yeah go girl naive types who believe the narrative arguments, but are not the truly hateful insane misandrists that drive the direction of feminist theory.

A prime example of this is discussions around the so called wage gap. Almost everyone agrees that all things being equal, a woman and a man working the same job should be paid the same. And all things bring equal this is largely the case. The problem is a mild feminist hears "I don't believe the wage gap is a problem," as "I believe women should be paid less than men" which is a mis-conception which is completely forgivable as the propoganda is designed to induce exactly that response. Rather it's important to point out that the wage gap is a very large scale macroeconomic view of the entire economy and it reflects the long term choices of women throughout their careers rather than the actual take home salaries of women at any specific job. And naturally if we count women who choose to focus on leaving their careers to raise children in the same statistical group as the men who by and large do not then this is the natural and expected state, and there isn't anything else to be done, we could argue that women are unfairly impacted by the rigors of childbirth as they have to carry and birth the child and it's significantly easier for them to nurse the child as well compared to men, and I'd agree with you in that women are uniquely impacted by that. However it's less a societal issue and more an issue you'll need to take up with God. I think it's wholly fair for a woman to forgo starting a family if she wishes, or for the man to be the stay at home parent if he wishes, there is nothing inherently wrong with either of these things. But the problem with the feminist movement comes down to a condemnation of women who choose domestic lifestyles rather than a recognition or that as what is by and large one of the greatest contributions to society and one of the most important jobs imaginable. They choose to belittle those who don't choose a lifestyle the same as theirs rather than merely advocating for the choice. A choice that has existed in our society for a good while now practically eliminating the need for activism. Indeed men and women are by and large on the same page when it comes to not only women's rights but men's rights as well. It's really only the least content in our societies that are active in the radical iterations of activism. If your life is miserable it's far more compelling to listen to the prophet who says the world sucks and should change to better fit you rather than the one who says you suck and should change to better fit the world though both have their issues of extreme conformists vs pariahs. The middle of path of accepting the world as it is and accepting the fact that you don't need to change yourself for the benefit of others but neither do you have a need to he happy as the world and therefore others won't change to benefit you.