QT/pro-trans: What are the most common misconceptions gender critical people have about things like being trans, gender identity, your goals or activism, etc?

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (47 children)

Many GCs think we are trying to enforce gender roles or trans every GNC kid. That's not true. I am staunchly against gender roles (which is different from gender identity, BTW). I think women should be allowed to go topless if men are allowed to go topless. My pet peeve is when a father watching his own kids is called "babysitting". You can't babysit your own kids. I loathe when fathers are praised for simply being involved in their child's life while mothers don't get nearly the same praise and are even told they should have been more responsible and kept their legs closed. I loathe when men get praised for sleeping with many women while women are called whores and sluts for doing the exact same thing. Or when women are expected to act more modest, polite and clean/organized then men. Or when men interrupt

I notice it is cis people who are enforcing restrictive gender roles. Examples are in kindergarten in the early 2000s. We were about to do some art project and sitting in a circle and the teacher asked each kid what color paper should choose. One boy choose pink, and a teacher told him "that's a girls color". Than in 3rd grade we were making mother’s day cards and coloring. I don't remember what this boy was drawing but a teacher told him "I don't think your mother will like that" and to draw stereotypically feminine things like flowers. Those teachers are still teaching at that school, as their names are on the school's website, and they appear cis. Then during prom, it was always girls who wore dresses while boys wear suits and ties. This year, my local CVS laid out the mother’s day cards, and most of the mother’s day cards were pink or had flowers. Then when they laid out the father's day cards, many were blue and one of them was a pop-up toolbox. AFAIK Hallmark is controlled by cis people. In my experience trans people are more likely to challenge restrictive gender roles than cis people. We shouldn't only blame trans people for a larger societal problem.

Also, we don't consider it transphobic if you refuse to sleep with a trans person because. We cannot help who we are attracted to and if you're not attracted to someone that's fine. We believe people should be allowed to define their own sexualities. If a trans woman considers dating men considers herself straight, she's straight. If a trans men dating other men considers himself a gay man, he's a gay man. But no one should be forced to date or sleep with anybody.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (46 children)

Gender roles, if they are not enforced by qt, then why are poster children like Jazz Jennings, who was diagnosed as a child based on his gender nonconformity still held up as ideals of early transition?

Why do so many males perpetuate ideas like estrogen use making them less intelligent, more emotional, and bad drivers?

I’m not gonna address the claim that “cis” people enforce gender more because one kindergarten teacher 21 years ago said blue is a boys colour other than to laugh at how bad that argument is.

Do you think the marketing teams at hallmark are gender critical and they choose pink for Mother’s Day because of that? Or because it’s already heavily associated as a woman’s colour and mothers are women?

In what way does it challenge gender norms when a thousand men say they are women because skirt goes spinny, because they are submissive, because they enjoy beauty culture, or because they enjoy participating in activities societally deemed feminine?

Wouldn’t a challenge to gender norms be a man donning a skirt and taking up soap making because he likes it and acknowledging that he is still a man?

How can straight and homosexual mean multiple conflicting things and still be effective communication? How is language meant to work if words do not have concrete meanings?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (45 children)

Gender roles, if they are not enforced by qt, then why are poster children like Jazz Jennings, who was diagnosed as a child based on his gender nonconformity still held up as ideals of early transition?

I don't think Jazz was diagnosed based solely on gender non-conformity. I think she stated outright many times she was a girl, and gender roles are deeply ingrained in society, so she probably wanted to be treated the same was society treats other girls because she's a girl.

I’m not gonna address the claim that “cis” people enforce gender more because one kindergarten teacher 21 years ago said blue is a boys colour other than to laugh at how bad that argument is.

In my personal experience, trans people are more likely to challenge traditional gender roles than cis people.

Do you think the marketing teams at hallmark are gender critical and they choose pink for Mother’s Day because of that? Or because it’s already heavily associated as a woman’s colour and mothers are women?

Yes pink is heavily associated with women, but I think cis people decided this.

In what way does it challenge gender norms when a thousand men say they are women because skirt goes spinny, because they are submissive, because they enjoy beauty culture, or because they enjoy participating in activities societally deemed feminine?

That's not the reason MTF people transition.

Wouldn’t a challenge to gender norms be a man donning a skirt and taking up soap making because he likes it and acknowledging that he is still a man?

Do you believe the stereotype that trans women are hyper feminine? One of my friends is a trans woman and doesn't wear dresses and skirts. She wears the same clothes she wore pre-transition.

How can straight and homosexual mean multiple conflicting things and still be effective communication? How is language meant to work if words do not have concrete meanings?

Being attracted to trans people who share the gender identity you're attracted to doesn't necessarily make you bisexual. I'm attracted to cis men and passing trans men. I had a few people on this sub insist I'm bisexual because I'm attracted to cis and trans men even though I'm straight.

I have nothing against the LGB community. Gay marriage was legalized in my state when I was finishing 9th grade, and I excitedly told my classmates in US history class the good news. The beginning of that year, the teacher had us write an essay about any government policy, IIRC. I remember I wrote about the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. In later years, a bisexual girl asked me out. I declined because I am straight. She is currently in a relationship with another woman, according to FB. I called out homophobia numerous times in my life.

But I'm straight. People define their sexuality differently. For some "gay" means they are attracted to cis men and trans women who don't fully pass as female. For others, it means they are attracted to anyone who has a penis. For some other people, it means they are attracted to cis and passing trans men. People should be allowed to use the terms whatever they feel best describes their sexuality.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (44 children)

You didn’t answer my questions

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (43 children)

You're right. I answered most, but forgot the rest of the questions.

Why do so many males perpetuate ideas like estrogen use making them less intelligent, more emotional, and bad drivers?

Why do so many GCs perpetuate the idea that testosterone makes trans men more violent? Here are some Ovarit comments to prove it.

No, FTMs really are this repulsive and aggressive sometimes. Testosterone makes them fucking insane, IME. … FTMs are violent pieces of shit exactly like men. Testosterone turns them into literal monsters.

You do get a little boost in endogenous T and it does make you a little hornier, aggressive, oilier, and zitty-er ha ha.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (42 children)

You think side effects that doctors warn them about are the same thing as men saying estrogen made them bad at maths?

Do you not see how one is a claim of an effect on mood and one is a claim of different cognitive abilities?

It’s known that hormones effect mood. It’s been observed for a long time. There is no evidence or reasonable cause to suspect that that estrogen alters ones ability to perform arithmetic.

You still did not answer and instead asked a question that’s not related to my question. Is this deliberate or what?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (41 children)

You think side effects that doctors warn them about are the same thing as men saying estrogen made them bad at maths?

In this case they weren't talking about the side effects that doctors warn about. They took examples of trans men being aggressive/violent and concluded it's the testosterone.

I have never heard any man say estrogen makes them bad at maths. All cis men have some estrogen, and all cis women have some testosterone.

However, there is a huge prejudice against women in math from all genders.

Both Genders Think Women Are Bad at Basic Math

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (40 children)

You don’t need to have seen it for me to have seen it all over Reddit. Again, aggression is a side effect they are warned about prior to taking it. It’s a reasonable conclusion to draw.

What is it about directly answering questions that you hate so much you won’t do it?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (39 children)

If you have seen it all over Reddit, provide links and examples. What subs can you easily find content like this because I haven't seen it in the subs I browse.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (38 children)

Lol all the main trans ones.

It has to be deliberate the way you don’t answer questions. Nobody could be that oblivious