Both: In light of recent events. In what context is Voyeurism and Indecent Exposure acceptable? Is there a rational justification for making an exception for males who claim to be women?

submitted by Penultimate_Penance from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (12 children)

Not being comfortable and not being safe aren’t the same thing. We aren’t safe in men’s spaces. That’s why we don’t go there. If I went into a men’s locker room I legitimately might be killed. That’s the point.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

So don’t go into male spaces, if you don’t want to. Doesn’t mean it’s okay to disrupt female spaces.

Who are you to tell women and girls that a male presence in a space that is not supposed to have any males in it is safe? You don’t get to decide for us if we feel safe or not, but it’s not just about safety. You’re infringing on our rights.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (10 children)

So don’t go into male spaces, if you don’t want to.

My point was literally to get you to acknowledge it’s about safety not your false dichotomy.

As you well know I prefer neutral spaces and don’t use women’s spaces at all other than bathrooms. Not because I think I shouldn’t be able to, I just don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable.

So okay. I have to build gym days around going home after, can’t go to a spa, can’t ever use a public pool (other than maybe at hotels) can’t try on clothes, a bunch of other stuff. But fact of the matter is we are left to choose between physical danger, making people uncomfortable, or missing out in large sections of public life. Can you at least see how awful it is we have no good choice?

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

You are creating the false dichotomy. You say you fear getting beat up, now killed, in a mens locker room. The false dichotomy is therefore you must use the womens room, when that is also inappropriate and this is not about your sense of safety but about voyerism and indecent exposure and a dude swinging his dick in front of little girls. You are making this topic about you when you should go back up and look at the topic title.

Ask for trans spaces, oh but that's not validating. Reality is not validating. How do you propose to keep creeps and liars out of women's spaces? I propose keep sex segregated spaces sex segregated. If you need a trans space, ask for it. Yesterdays riot was not about your safety, it was to shut up and intimidate women so that they accommodate creeps swinging their dicks around in little girls faces. If you think that is about you, then you are dangerous and should not be dealt with politely.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (8 children)

I’m literally openly for single occupancy neutral spaces. Trans spaces are an issue because they force us to put ourselves and the only true escape from trans prejudice is stealth. My point has never Been we should be using all women’s spaces it’s that we can’t use men’s spaces.

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I think that is something I'd like to hear more people clammoring for instead of the "we just want to pee, in front of women and little girls" line. But: a gym that can fit say 100 people comfortably should have how many single occupancy spaces? There's the problem. A third room for trans women might be the best solution.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

Who would build a third room for a business when most gyms would never see one? Why would they pay for that?

Plus as I said it puts us. It’s better than a men’s room but far from ideal.

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You're the one calling for individual bathrooms, a third is a big savings over that.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

Not really. An empty room that costs a bunch of money is a hard sell.

[–]Penultimate_Penance[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That third unisex space is already built in a lot of places. They're called family restrooms and family changing rooms. I've lost count of the number of places I have seen family restrooms available. Male and female bodied people can both enter that space, that is the point of family restrooms, so opposite sex parents can take care of their young children, this space can also benefit trans people. If it was such a hard sell it wouldn't be so common.