QT: What rights don’t trans people have?

submitted by wokuspokus from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]strictly 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Trans men claim they are men

They claim that they have a gender identity which they have named "man" so they are talking about gender identity, not biological sex. You need to prove 100% of all the men you call cisgender also refer to gender identity and not biological sex, you have no such proof.

If the man did not have a gender identity, he would not be referring to himself as a man, but rather "AMAB".

If a man referring to himself as a man does not have a gender identity he would not define man as a gender identity, that means he would not need to refer to himself with the letter combination "amab" as he uses the letter combination "man" to refer to exactly that. You already know not everybody agrees with your genderfied redefinitions so it's intellectually dishonest of you to suddenly pretend as if everyone (including GC) would refer to gender identity and not biological sex when you know that's not the case. You need to prove the man defines man as gender identity before you safely call the man cisgender for referring to himself a man.

It sounds like you have a hard time understanding that GC and genderists are referring to different things with certain letter combinations, and that it is the thing referred to, not the letter combination itself, which gives a word its meaning. When you call me something I don't care about the exact sounds that come out of your throat, I care about what you mean. Therefor I would consider it an insult if you called me a woman, as you, as a genderist, would refer to a gender identity I don't have, making it a lie. Had you not been a genderist and simply meant adult human biological female, then that is a true statement and not an insult.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

They claim that they have a gender identity which they have named "man" so they are talking about gender identity, not biological sex. You need to prove 100% of all the men you call cisgender also refer to gender identity and not biological sex, you have no such proof.

To be trans means you don't primarily identify by your biological sex. Yes, Buck acknowledges that he's biologically female, but that's now he primarily identifies. He identifies as a man. Agender is part of the transgender spectrum. You can be a man, woman, both (bigender) or neither (agender). Someone who primarily identifies by their sex assigned at birth is cisgender.

If a man referring to himself as a man does not have a gender identity he would not define man as a gender identity, that means he would not need to refer to himself with the letter combination "amab" as he uses the letter combination "man" to refer to exactly that. You already know not everybody agrees with your genderfied redefinitions so it's intellectually dishonest of you to suddenly pretend as if everyone (including GC) would refer to gender identity and not biological sex when you know that's not the case. You need to prove the man defines man as gender identity before you safely call the man cisgender for referring to himself a man.

Someone without a gender identity is not a man. I know GC people don't agree, but someone whose gender identity matches their birth sex is cisgender. That's literally all cis means.

When you call me something I don't care about the exact sounds that come out of your throat, I care about what you mean. Therefor I would consider it an insult if you called me a woman, as you, as a genderist, would refer to a gender identity I don't have, making it a lie. Had you not been a genderist and simply meant adult human biological female, then that is a true statement and not an insult.

Then I won't call you a woman then, because you are not one. I respect your identity and pronouns. However, a GC person will call adult AFAB a woman, even if the person states they are not a woman. They insult AFAB people.

[–]strictly 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Someone who primarily identifies by their sex assigned at birth is cisgender.

Knowing your biological sex is simply knowledge, not an identity, otherwise Buck Angel would be a cisgendered woman, or perhaps "bigender" for "identifying as biological female" and having this "man-identity" at the same time. It's you who is assigning people with gender identities simply for knowing their biological sex, this shouldn't be assumed without asking the person in question if their biological sex is indeed a primary identity to them and the person saying yes to that.

Agender is part of the transgender spectrum.

Yeah, so people who say they have no gender identity wouldn't be cisgender even according to gender ideology.

I know GC people don't agree, but someone whose gender identity matches their birth sex is cisgender. That's literally all cis means.

I actually agree that people who have made their biological sex into their gender identity are cisgender so I have never disbelieved your gender identity. I am saying all the people who don't share your gender identity are not cisgender and that many people are simply biologically female without having any matching gender identity and should not be called cisgender.

That's literally all cis means.

Yeah, making it an insulting thing to be called for anyone who doesn't have a gender identity as it's lie.

However, a GC person will call adult AFAB a woman, even if the person states they are not a woman. They insult AFAB people.

What you see as the insulting thing here is not sharing your definitions, but there is no lie as we are not referring to any false gender identity. Even to you an "AFAB"-person is an "AFAB"-person regardless if that "AFAB"-person likes being "AFAB" or not, and woman is simply the word for adult human "AFAB" to us. I consider lies worse than uncomfortable truths. Changing the definition of woman to refer to gender identity instead would almost inevitably lead to misgendering female people en masse with false gender identities, that goes against my morals.

EDIT: Accidental double negation

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting how genderists are so hypocritical in such questions. At one hand saying that identifying means all, and then forcing "cis" identity on people who disagree with them, or calling "cis women" - women, even without asking their self-identity, pronouns and assuming person have gender identity at all. So in the end genderists are doing something that is "literal violence" when done to them, but have no issue doing it themselves.