QT: Where are the “trans men” athletes winning against men?

submitted by BiologyIsReal from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I normally argue against bringing up DSDs in convos about transgenderism. However as the Caster Semenya case illustrates, in the area of athletics there is now alignment in the arguments for participation in women's sports made on behalf of XY DSD males with fully functioning testes, male levels of T & working androgen receptors and on behalf of trans-identified male athletes. Semenya & Semenya's team have long argued that the only thing that should determine eligiblity for participating in female sports is having legal identity documents stating one's sex is female or F.

Semenya's side argues it's a human rights violation for sports governing bodies to require XY DSD athletes like Semenya to take drugs to suppress the T that their testes make in order to compete in women's sports. Semenya's case is going to be head by the European Court of Human Rights in the summer, June I think.

Some trans activists, such as Dawn Ennis, the AGP trans-identified male editor of Outsports, have argued on Semenya's behalf in media appearances. Specifically, Ennis has said that when sports governing bodies require male athletes with male-only DSDs like Semenya to suppress their T by any means in order to be eligible to compete in female sports, it amounts to "legally mandated genital mutilation." Requiring athletes like Semenya to take T suppressing drugs specifically in order to compete has also been characterized as "forced pharmaceutical self-harm."

This of course totally contradicts many of the other claims that trans activists & Ennis specifically constantly make, namely that when trans-identified males take cross-sex hormones, it's not only completely harmless - it's necessary, beneficial & "life saving."

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I felt the same about DSD in general, but the whole Semenya saga and the "hyperandrogenism" was a joke from the let's go. It's been a while since I learn from him, but I think at the beginning the Media said he was a woman with adrenal hyperplasia (or maybe I just assumed the adrenal hyperplasia thing because that made more sense than the reality, really). Though, the instant I saw a picture of him I knew something was off.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I'm pretty up on the Semenya story, but I don't recall Semenya being portrayed as having CAH, a condition (or rather two conditions) I think most of the press over the course of Semenya's career have been too stupid to understand or portray. The media have usually portrayed Semenya as a "woman with hyperandrogenism" or a "woman with naturally high levels of testosterone" for some mysterious, nameless reason no one knows & no one understands.

Pictures of Semenya made you think something was off? You bigot! Here's a vid of Semenya when Semenya was on T suppressing drugs. I've never seen someone so clearly female displaying all the hallmarks of having been raised & socialized female, such as the ladylike way Caster sits & the bashful way Caster avoids bragging. Semenya even proves Semenya's libfeminist credentials by dissing female people, calling us "boring" & "weak" https://youtu.be/Hvg50P4FwTk

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Semenya has 5ard, not CAH. Males with CAH would look perfectly male, maybe shorter. Females with CAH can look more masculine, our testosterone levels are lower than ones of transmen, but often slighltly higher than norm, and we still can get pregnant, etc.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes the court documents show that Semenya has 5-ARD. Significantly, though 5-ARD occurs in both males & females, it only affects sex development in males. Most females with 5-ARD will go their whole lives unaware they have it, because it seems to have no affect on females in any way. Which just goes to show that the claim that Semenya is "a female athlete with a DSD" is a total crock; Semenya has a DSD that only males can have. The condition itself confirms that Semenya is male. Apart from the appearance of their genitals, & absence of facial & body hair, males with 5-ARD are otherwise unaffected & have good health. Since their testes produce normal sperm, some have fathered children - though usually after medical intervention or with some assistance.