GC: Do you genuinely desire to have more trans men in public positions (i.e. acting, politics)?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]SnowAssMan 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You're describing a recent phenomenon which is mainly only occurring in the West, among the middle-classes. Why would you assume that trans-men will always think of themselves as men?

There is a movie from 1999 called Boys Don't Cry about a girl who wants to pass as a man (based on a real person). At the time she was a girl, nowadays we revise history to make her a he. 1999 wasn't that long ago. In just as little time the pendulum could swing right back again. Maybe once the economy is better & people are less into conformity, then we could see a return to gender abolition instead of gender appropriation.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You're describing a recent phenomenon

Trans men have existed since the beginning of time. Just for many years we haven't publically acknowledged trans people.

which is mainly only occurring in the West,

Trans men exist in 3rd world countries.

among the middle-classes.

Trans men come from all walks of life.

Why would you assume that trans-men will always think of themselves as men?

There is a movie from 1999 called Boys Don't Cry about a girl who wants to pass as a man (based on a real person). At the time she was a girl, nowadays we revise history to make her a he.

Even in the documentary, Brandon Teena openly identified as a man. It's just that back then, the media referred to trans people as "cross dressers". Nowadays the media acknowledges trans people but that only started fairly recently.

[–]SnowAssMan 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Revisionism. If you had your way you would categorise the Balkan Sworn Virgins as trans-men. Not every woman who lives as a "man" is a trans-man. Our understanding of transgenderism includes categorising trans-men as men & pathologising the identity – this approach is unique to the here & now.

I said mainly only occurring in the West, among the middle-classes, not 100% of them, the existence of exceptions doesn't dispute this point.

You're saying they were wrong back then, I'm saying they're wrong now. Nowadays even lesbians as feminine as Ellen Page question their gender. Our modern understanding of gender is clearly skewed. When we see any deviation from the norm the assumption is transgenderism.

In Brandon Teena's own words it's a 'sexual identity crisis' that we are dealing with – if you look that up you'll find a lot of results on homosexuality. Lesbians wanting to be boys is far too common to use it as a reference point for "trans-men are men". Lesbianism/gynaephilia is overrepresented in trans-men – what does that tell you? To the critical mind it's all too clear what that evidence points to.

Take the person's sexual orientation into account first before reaching your default conclusion.

[–]questioningtw 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree that saying the Balkan Sworn Virgins are trans ids beyond offensive. And I also agree that there are way, way too many girls coming out as trans; actual transdgenderism is very rare. But, they do exist.