Does GC feminism include trans men?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Nope. And even if they did I couldn' t give a lesser damn. I don' t follow the masses just because they say they are right, I happen to have a mind of my own. I have no clue why "everybody does it" seems like a reasonable thing to say to justify your position.

That's actually a good trait to have. I have a mind of my own too.

Supporting that doesn' t mean they actually believe that they are the sex they identify as.

Correct, There should be a study that asks people that.

I already answered this question and I won' t repeat myself.

OK you view women attracted to trans men and men attracted to trans women as bisexual. However, when most people talk about sexual orientation, they mean the gender presentation one is attracted to, not their biology. But you don't care what most of society thinks.

You are wasting my time and I suspect you are the same poster in the old sub who thought that trans men should go to men' s prisons.

No but I know who you're talking about.

I will keep saying that they are included in my feminism like any other woman is, even the ones who have opinions that go against feminism (and for some reasons, they don' t require for me to support them to feel included, nor they require cheerleaders like you to defend them),

OK, keep telling yourself that lie.

So far, nobody has had issues in understanding me except you and people like you, which means that the only problem I will have in my life is when I have the misfortune of dealing with individuals such as yourself in this sub.

Mainstream society doesn't agree with you.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Correct, There should be a study that asks people that.

So you admit that you have no clue what most people think because there is no study that asked that. So that "most people think that trans women are female" was something you took out of your ass. Glad we covered that.

Meanwhile, in the real world, half of the population is right wing and/or religious, and they definitely do not believe that trans people are the gender/sex they claim to be. Add gender critical and radical feminists. Add people who don' t care about gender bullshit and are stuck in the middle ages of biological sex. Add random leftists/centrists who didn' t drink the kool-aid. That makes the majority of the population. All it' s left are TRAs and wokies.

OK you view women attracted to trans men and men attracted to trans women as bisexual. However, when most people talk about sexual orientation, they mean the gender presentation one is attracted to, not their biology.

So why do trans people keep whining that most of them cannot find a partner because their biology/bodies are not what the other person wants? If nobody cared about biology, then one would think that trans people wouldn' t have so many issues. And yet, this says otherwise, not to mention all the navelgazing articles about how trans people are sad because gay men are cock-centric and lesbians are vagina fetishists.

Similarly, if most people respect and accept trans people as their preferred sex/gender, does that mean that you lot can finally stop whining that trans people are the most oppressed category that ever existed and will ever exist? Because if everyone kisses their gender identity' s ass, then they are not discriminated against or mistreated, and we can drop the pretense that they won the victimhood olympics.

Mainstream society doesn't agree with you.

What part of "I don't care about what mainstream society says" or "nobody misunderstands what I say when I talk about sexual orientations" didn't you understand?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So you admit that you have no clue what most people think because there is no study that asked that. So that "most people think that trans women are female" was something you took out of your ass. Glad we covered that.

According to this poll, 51% of people said trans women are female.

Meanwhile, in the real world, half of the population is right wing and/or religious, and they definitely do not believe that trans people are the gender/sex they claim to be. Add gender critical and radical feminists. Add people who don' t care about gender bullshit and are stuck in the middle ages of biological sex. Add random leftists/centrists who didn' t drink the kool-aid. That makes the majority of the population. All it' s left are TRAs and wokies.

In the study I mentioned previously, 47% of Republicans support trans rights. We're not all far left.

So why do trans people keep whining that most of them cannot find a partner because their biology/bodies are not what the other person wants? If nobody cared about biology, then one would think that trans people wouldn' t have so many issues. And yet, this says otherwise, not to mention all the navelgazing articles about how trans people are sad because gay men are cock-centric and lesbians are vagina fetishists.

People can date whoever they want and refuse to date anyone for any reason. No one is owed sex. The study you mentioned said 1.8% of straight women and 3.3% of straight men would date a trans person of either binary gender. 11.5% of gay men and 29% of lesbians were trans inclusive in their dating preferences.

Similarly, if most people respect and accept trans people as their preferred sex/gender, does that mean that you lot can finally stop whining that trans people are the most oppressed category that ever existed and will ever exist? Because if everyone kisses their gender identity' s ass, then they are not discriminated against or mistreated, and we can drop the pretense that they won the victimhood olympics.

Just because people accept trans people as their preferred sex/gender, doesn't mean discrimination is over. That's like saying racism was over after segregation ended.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

According to this poll, 51% of people said trans women are female.

Ah, so, now twitter polls are conclusive of what people actually believe and as respectable as official surverys and studies? Great: according to this completely valid poll and this other one most people do not support nonbinary and trans people having rights. And if they don' t believe they should have rights, they don' t believe they are the gender they identify as either.

Not to mention, the writer of that article even says that they were expecting a no, which means that 1) 51% was achieved only among Twitter users, and given that not everyone uses Twitter, it can' t be used an an objective proof of what happens in the real world; 2) that even the one who made that poll can' t believe their luck, and they were asking their followers who very likely share the same mentality as the author: so to make it more clear, the author asked the TWAW brigade if trans women are female, and they were shocked that the answer was yes. Let' s repeat it for even more clarity, out of an audience that proudly shouts that trans women are women, only the 51% of them said that they consider them female; 3) 51% barely qualifies as "win".

Now, before you tell me that since I am posting polls as well so mine are as invalid as yours, I will tell you that I agree completely: I am only posting those studies and polls because you seem to only care about this crap. Because you keep saying that you think with your head, but you obsessively seek the majority to agree with you to justify and validate your opinions.

I don' t believe any study or poll that is based on opinions and feelings, even if they agree with me, because no matter how rigorous the collection of data is, it cannot be objective.

These polls and studies are as valid as the ones that are made for political elections, which means they aren' t in the least.

In the study I mentioned previously, 47% of Republicans support trans rights. We're not all far left.

As I already said, supporting trans rights doesn' t mean they believe trans women are female/women. I support trans rights as well, and I don' t acknowledge or respect trans people' s identity.

People can date whoever they want and refuse to date anyone for any reason. No one is owed sex. The study you mentioned said 1.8% of straight women and 3.3% of straight men would date a trans person of either binary gender. 11.5% of gay men and 29% of lesbians were trans inclusive in their dating preferences.

So you completely missed the point? This isn' t a question of being allowed to date, it' s a question of basing sexual orientation on presentation instead of biology. You said most people are attracted to presentation. So why is it that only the 1, 8% of straight women, 3, 3% of straight men, 11, 5% of gay men and 29% of lesbians are willing to date trans people? If presentation is what is important, then most straight men and lesbians should be more than happy to date trans women, and most straight women and gay men would be more than happy to date trans men. And yet, for some unexplainable reason, they aren' t and when they are, they go for biological sex more than their gender identity/presentation. In that study it' s specifically said that the one that collected the data is baffled by the fact that people even answered going against their identification (aka, straight men and lesbians are more willing to date trans men than trans women because, as straight men and lesbians, they are more willing to date females over males. HOW ODD!!!!!!).

Just because people accept trans people as their preferred sex/gender, doesn't mean discrimination is over. That's like saying racism was over after segregation ended.

First of all, nobody of you trans enthusiasts stops at discrimination, you all claim that trans people are the most oppressed category EVER!!!!!!! That trans women can' t even use a man' s bathroom because if they entered there they would be instantly killed (even though I have never even seen anecdotes on the matter, let alone statistics). You enjoy bringing up the ridicoulous idea that trans people are the category that is most killed and abused. If everyone accepts and respects them, then they shouldn' t be so discriminated that they can' t even use a bathroom without being attacked.

Secondly, the discrimination they face is all based on their presentation/gender identity: if everyone accepts them, then they can' t be discriminated over it.

The comparison with racism is, as usual, ridicoulous: nobody has ever said that the end of segregation meant that everyone suddenly started liking and respecting black people, quite the opposite. Nobody even in this current day claims that everyone accepts black people: in fact, the narrative is that white people are all racists and even the most open minded of us still has white privilege and still has preconceptions on black people.

And yet, trans people are completely accepted as their preferred sex and at the same time the most oppressed category ever because nobody takes seriously their identification as their preferred sex.

As I already said, you are full of shit.

Now, as fun as this has been, you are indeed wasting my time, so let' s just agree to disagree and move on. Have a nice day.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah, so, now twitter polls are conclusive of what people actually believe and as respectable as official surverys and studies? Great: according to this completely valid poll and this other one most people do not support nonbinary and trans people having rights. And if they don' t believe they should have rights, they don' t believe they are the gender they identify as either.

I can't find respectable surveys and studies, but I will conduct polls and search internet opinions myself on a variety of sites.

So you completely missed the point? This isn' t a question of being allowed to date, it' s a question of basing sexual orientation on presentation instead of biology. You said most people are attracted to presentation. So why is it that only the 1, 8% of straight women, 3, 3% of straight men, 11, 5% of gay men and 29% of lesbians are willing to date trans people? If presentation is what is important, then most straight men and lesbians should be more than happy to date trans women, and most straight women and gay men would be more than happy to date trans men.

There are tons of reasons people don't want to date trans people and that's OK. Some people want biological children, other people don't want to deal with the baggage of someone being trans. However, some people do include trans people in their dating pool, including 29% of lesbians and 11.5% of gay men. Are they all bisexual now?

First of all, nobody of you trans enthusiasts stops at discrimination, you all claim that trans people are the most oppressed category EVER!!!!!!! That trans women can' t even use a man' s bathroom because if they entered there they would be instantly killed (even though I have never even seen anecdotes on the matter, let alone statistics).

Trans people are still being assaulted for using the correct bathroom.

Transgender woman killed in Puerto Rico after using women's bathroom

A man beat a transgender woman for using the correct bathroom -- the women's. Now he's guilty of a hate crime

Trans woman Chrissy Lee Polis beaten for using the women's restroom

Trans man attacked inside 7/11

A suspect has been arrested in the death of a transgender woman whose body was found in a lake

25 year old trans man Dustin Parker fatally shot on New Year's Day

Yes, trans people experience widespread discrimination. That's a face. Disabled people still experience widespread discrimination. I know because I'm disabled myself. I know some groups experience more discrimination than other. In my life I had hardly been discriminated for being a woman and for being Jewish, but I had been discriminated a lot for being disabled. I'm not trans, so I don't know to what extent trans people are discriminated against, but I know they're discriminated against.