My Body... My Choice..

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[–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

We got somewhere! You support vaccines, the phrase, 'my body, my choice', can be applied, although many people find it offensive as it's apparently the 'unofficial slogan for abortion', but it still works.

I get your pro vaccine, and pro medicine, but the fact is, there are many people who aren't. I cannot blame them, and support them in their quest out of persecution. The reasons I do, are simple, but vast in examples. Did you know that when doctors have gone on strike, mortality rates fall? There are supposed numerous easy explanations for this, but the truth remains when doctors when in any organized group go on strike, death rates fall. What about diseases that get thrown into generic boxes? Now the most common form of Muscular Dystrophy, 'FSHD', didn't even exist 20 years ago. It was barely acknowledged, so what did they do? They started throwing several other recognized, and differentiated diseases into the FSHD box. Within the last few years, it went from being literally unheard of, to the most 'prevalent' form of MD.... You should see the variety of possible symptoms now that they've thrown all of it together! lol. Again though, it's not a single disease, and you when you find a neurologist willing to talk, they'll tell you the same thing.

A little further away in medical, I could go on, and on about the pharmaceuticals, and the dirty deeds done in that arena. A single drug Seroquel can make my point here; go research that drug, and the guy in charge of it. He manipulated the entire market, fucked around/ literally sleeping with women in positions necessary to get the drug pushed. The drug has adverse side effects, and was entirely mis approved for usages due to this man's need for greed. His punishment was hardly anything, and now is overseeing another drug company in Switzerland. People have their right to not believe, and not be persecuted into actions they aren't comfortable with, or sure of.

On the topics of democracies, as you brought up, I don't know what country you're from, but in the USA, we're supposed to be a Republic; where by our Natural Inalienable Rights(they're real!) are honored. It's not a straight democracy where mob rules; the media, the govt., and the oligarchy in power want us all to believe that fairy tale.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Did you know that when doctors have gone on strike, mortality rates fall?

No, they don't.

What about diseases that get thrown into generic boxes?

Yeah, that sucks, but does it actually affect you? As far as I can tell, that's mostly just a way to get funding through the broken system. Though in the case of FSHD, that might not be the case.

A little further away in medical, I could go on, and on about the pharmaceuticals

Oh, yeah, that whole system sucks. And that's the most relevant one to vaccines… but the issues with the system don't really apply to vaccines. Specifically, the pushing of drugs people don't need, whilst ignoring the side-effects. This doesn't apply to the vaccines they produce, which are technologically unnovel; new vaccines of the same type (e.g. new viral vaccines produced using embryonic stem cell cultures) don't have new side-effects, and these vaccines have been tested enough for me to be certain that a properly-produced vaccine will be safe.

Yes, the US is a constitutional republic, aka a representative democracy. However, bribery.

[–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

first off, I love the link from debunking denialism, abolutely priceless LOL!!!! I should find cheat debate sites, that can make my arguments for me... LOL

If you read your own debunking denialism link, it absolutely does show that mortality rates fall; period. They simply defer to state it was due to elective surgeries being stopped, and so by default doctors are good. I was aware of this, and don't deny the fact, but it doesn't dismiss the fact that on the few occasions of doctors on strike, more people live! LOL

Also, since the article was so pro-AMA, and crapped all over anything alternative, are you familiar with the concept of doctors operating on patients when not necessary, but for profit alone? I was never aware of such things, but a good friend of mine is a perfusionist, but not practicing. The reason he's not? He decided it was a racket, he worked back in Maryland, and stated all the doctors he worked with would do this, he said they'd even trade patients over games of golf; trade them for unnecessary procedures, that would go towards making payments on toys. Now I comprehend what I wrote, may have interest, but it's hearsay. Sure! So here's one article that covers such things; it's out there --->>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/18/unnecessary-surgery-usa-today-investigation/2435009/

Onto vaccines; did this little boy deserve what he got when his parents allowed the vaccine? https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-shocking-video-baby-suffering-9447899?fbclid=IwAR3Nh4__XyvWmkfP7MpAbonGJ9JpKYFdAuN3ao0YaLdSJFh7--ApFBVq0b0

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I should find cheat debate sites, that can make my arguments for me… LOL

Well, many people on this site do do that. But, as you can see from your own ability to cherry-pick the cases where it did fall, it's actually not a very biased source.

it absolutely does show that mortality rates fall; period.

Only in Los Angeles (1976) and possibly Jerusalem (2000). In Jerusalem (1983), possibly Spain (1990), Croatia (2003) and three others, no such fall was found. So, only a quarter of strikes showed a fall in mortality rates.

are you familiar with the concept of doctors operating on patients when not necessary, but for profit alone?

Yeah, I'd heard of that happening in the more backwards countries where that's financially encouraged. But this isn't actually relevant to vaccines, since they're not made by doctors.

The little boy did not deserve what he got. Seizures are not a symptom of meningitis, however febrile seizures do occur in 4% of ½–5 year-olds when they get fevers. This, however, does not look like a febrile seizure; it looks like epilepsy.

I can't think of a mechanism by which Bexsero could cause epilepsy, or even bacterial meningitis, since it doesn't contain the bacteria that cause it. The worst that could happen is an immune response resulting in fever.

But let's go with it, and say that this is a symptom of the vaccine. This child will probably survive. Think of how rare this is, and then think of how deadly bacterial meningitis is. Assuming that this was caused by the vaccine – which is dubious anyway – it's worth it.

[–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Wizz,

No cherry picking, just loved that it was a 'kill shot' site, a site where their only intended goal is to carry the official narrative as the word of some god sent forth to crush any dissent; am I wrong? I don't like that, I want variety of sources to garner my information; to make my own mind up.

Likewise, with either the doctors striking, or the boy sick with 'something', it was my attempt to convey that there are tons of unknowns, uncertainties, and variables where by life isn't a cookie cutter situation. Could a vaccine save your life, or ruin your life? Both are absolute possibilities; it's undeniable. For myself, I lean away from allopathic medicine, and towards hollistic, no denying it.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

am I wrong?

Apart from the "as the word of some god" part, no. But it's extremely hard to find unbiased sources nowadays. That page, at least, wasn't biased in which evidence it chose, unlike Breitbart et al..

Could a vaccine save your life, or ruin your life?

Yes. But it's much more likely to save your life than ruin it.

… I probably shouldn't tell you this. But after sitting here for two minutes staring at the screen, I think I'm going to anyway. *sigh* I hope this doesn't kill anyone.

From a game theory point of view, assuming that each individual chooses individually and is a selfish rational agent unable to predict any other agent:

  • if few people vaccinate, it is vastly better to be vaccinated.
  • if everybody vaccinates, it is slightly better to be unvaccinated but this benefit is miniscule – a benefit comparable with winning the lottery first try – and goes away if many people go unvaccinated.

The more other people vaccinate, the better it is for you. That's why most countries solve this pseudo-"prisoner's dilemma" in such a way that results in a stable state with a lower fatality rate than the "individual" one. Everybody agrees to do what the government tells them to do, and then they vote on what the government tells them to do. If you could vote to make a choice for everyone (not immunocompromised), including yourself, and guarantee that everybody was either vaccinated or not vaccinated, every rational, selfish agent would vote for "vaccinated" and it would benefit all of them.

Now assume that the government isn't mandating it. Instead, assume that many people will make the same decision as you, for the same reasons. So really, you're choosing for multiple people who think the same way as you.

What's it going to be?

[–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I link to several sites, none of which I personally endorse(I honestly try not to 'own' any opinion other than what I personally come up with), and often times articles i post, or threads I participate in, I don't personally 'own' any certain position, other than all objective angles, and 'what works'; meaning 5, 10, 20, 50+ years from now.

As far as vaccines, I know both sides of the debate, I get where you're coming from, and I also get where the anti-vaxxers are coming from. I'm actually neither; I don't have an opinion other than I usually will take the position of what I see as the anti-establishment, or underdog choice/stance/argument.

An angle in regards to general public health, that hasn't been covered are parasites, and hygiene. We're forced to touch more, and more in this 21st century. If the McDonald's kiosk touch screens have fecal matter, then what of the credit card machines everywhere? Fecal matter has live parasites.

If you read into the topic of parasites; they're everywhere, and cause a large health impact. Yet not much of an outcry from anyone over this, and it's a serious health issue for everyone.

Another angle to any debate in our modern world is the idea of 'break away' societies. I think we're there now in so many ways. While we debate here, what impact does a single opinion have, or multiples? A single cohesive group could be formed, but life proves this never happens. I can totally see a future world split in many ways, or demarcation lines perhaps on par with how Israel has set up for varying cohesive groups, and perhaps the 'outsiders' who just let everything go.

We're getting there.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I honestly try not to 'own' any opinion other than what I personally come up with

Same. I merely linked the site because I found it when searching, and summed up the evidence better than I; I didn't get my opinion from that site in the first place, and in fact have never visited it before.

I usually will take the position of what I see as the anti-establishment, or underdog choice/stance/argument.

The contrarian is an important role to play in any debate, but make sure you don't get too attached to your contrarian position. That being said, don't become contra-contrarian either. (warning: site has anti-death bias)

Yet not much of an outcry from anyone over this, and it's a serious health issue for everyone.

I hear loads about hand-washing and the importance of hygiene. It's something that is somewhat instilled in my local culture, actually; people infrequently shame (comment on) each other for not washing hands after going to the toilet, etc..

I'm not sure what you mean by the breakaway societies thing. It seems like you've attempted to articulate a large, large coherent thought, but there's far more information that you're trying to convey than can have been represented by that paragraph.

[–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Break away societies.... Today, we can choose to live as primitive cave people using a large database of 'primitive technologies', or blast off into space using 'high technologies'. Both have volumes of information to learn, in regards to the knowledge necessary to survive, and thrive in said societies.

Likewise with the Internet, and given some natural acumen, any skill, or subject can be conquered in a relative short time frame; as opposed to yesteryear where that information, and knowledge may of necessitated years of study.

I donno long term how everything will fall, but we've seen the Internet alone, change the world, and it's still changing.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's true, and bears thinking about.