Soyboy Logic

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[–]Tom_Bombadil 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

People who don't care about the second amendment rights, probably haven't heard about the real history of the Holodomors.

It could happen here too.

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

ANy books you recommend on gun control in Soviet Union that led to the Holodomor?

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Unfortunately, I don't have any books to recommend. The info could be correct. Could be bullshit.

It's consistent with what I've been able to learn (amidst the bullshit) about post WW1 Russia/USSR.

What do you think? Is it legit?

https://holodomorinfo.com/2016/03/19/the-holodomor-genocides/

The Tambov massacre had all the characteristics of a dry run in which the Bolshevik Red Army first exercised all its dreadful force against the civilian population revealing that Lenin had discovered a powerful weapon against the ethnic European people which is evidenced by the mass murders known as the Holodomor Genocides occurring in 1921-22, 1932-33 and 1946-47.

Order No. 171, dated 11th June 1921 and signed by Vladimir Ovseenko shows clearly the sorts of methods used to “pacify” Tambov Province. It stipulated:

1) Shoot on sight any citizens who refuse to give their names.
2) District and Regional Political Commissions are hereby authorized to pronounce sentence on any village where arms are being hidden, and to arrest hostages and shoot them if the whereabouts of the arms are not revealed.
3) Wherever arms are found, execute immediately the eldest son in the family.
4) Any family that has harboured a bandit is to be arrested and deported from the province, their possessions are to be seized, and the eldest son is to be executed immediately.
5) Any families sheltering other families who have harboured bandits are to be punished in the same manner, and their eldest son is to be shot.
6) In the event that bandit families have fled, their possessions are to be redistributed among peasants who are loyal to the Soviet (Bolshevik) regime, and their houses are to be burned or demolished.
7) These orders are to be carried out rigorously and without mercy.

/u/useless_aether

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

/u/useless_aether

Well, it's a blog, so, what's true in it? The Holodomer was orchestrated not by Jews, but communist atheists. The commissars of the Soviet Union were a Jewish majority by race only, and/or who came from Orthodox Jewish families, but did not practice Judaism in the slightest...

[That is if one thinks Jews are a race and not just a religion.]

...which before WW2, ashkanazi Jews by other Jews were not considered to be Jewish because they converted to Judaism in the Pale of Settlement. Zionism, in fact, has created this flimsy narrative to further their agendas after the war. Most in Bolshevik Russia were atheistic and were considered apostates by other Jews anyway. But Jews of all colors, unfortunately, supported the Bolsheviks because they were poorly treated by the white army and the Czars. Though, nothing the Czars did to them compared to what the Bolsheviks during and after the foreign revolution did to the Russians.

As for the blog

The first picture is disinformation: https://holodomorinfo.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/22without-jews-there-would-never-have-been-bolshevism.jpg

It sounds true, and is but you mine as well slap your name on it and claim it because it is a fake quote like most other quotes on the internet. That alone makes me question this blog more critically. The quote supposedly came from Solzhenitsyn written in his book '200 Years Together.' It's not there and was never said or written by him. A reviewer of this book on good-reads, who gave it 5-stars was able to expose this and I confirmed it by reading the book and translating Russian forums to English who also tried to find the true origins of the quote.

All that being said, Solzhenitsyn book was censored in the US because he wrote about the Jewish role in the Bolshevik revolution and the origins of Zionism.

I do not known if the Holodomor was a dry run per say but some make the point that it was a military decision, however, considering Lenin and Trotsky both advocated for outright terror, it is a credible position to take. I have a 10 part series on the Bolsheviks based on Solzhenitsyn's 200 Years Together, I posted it three times. The newer one is an unabridged version and filled with more information. Read it if you want.

Now, this blog is based on Order 171. I do not doubt that the Bolsheviks conducted this massacre. Most scholars now accept this.

It took me awhile to find it. But yes, if the order was enacted, it proves that towns were disarmed but because the Soviet Union was under Martial law, an order or law enacted by legality would not really matter. A simple decree in the Pravda would suffice, which did when they started executing people who were deemed to be anti-Semitic.

Order 171 is detailed in the book:

'Bandits and Partisans: The Antonov Movement in the Russian Civil War', by Erik C. Landis.

https://books.google.com/books?id=R2_53VhgmSkC&q=171#v=onepage&q=171&f=false

Here is the sources for the book, at the endnotes: number 6, 19, 21, 23, 24, would thusly go into more detail concerning this order. The source is from:

Rossiiskii gosudarstvennyi voennyi arkhiv / Russian State Military Archive...

From the archives:

RGVA f. 827, op. 1, d. 13, II. 229, 336

So, yes it seems to be a real order. Thusly, the Soviets were keen on disarming cities and towns that opposed their will. Compare that to the Nazis, who although were ardent fascists did not impose gun control like that, but utilized other means of exploitation and forms of control. Nazis were therefore fond of private property and kept it intact as long as the person or business wasn't in direct confrontation with their will such as a boycott or if you became subjects to the state and were revoked citizenship as many Jews were in the late 1930's. This was much different than the collectivization and gun-control orders of the Soviet Bolsheviks. That pro-gun advocates seem to forget. They claim Hitler took all the guns away, which is a lie. Soviets enacted gun control on entire towns, and would torture and kill anyone who opposed their will. This included getting rid of all ownership of private property.

But it seems like it was relayed like other orders as a decree in the Prada on the 4th of July.

So, why did not the blog use a bibliography to link it? I do not know?