PoliticalDebate

indianusjones

This shows minimal impact (others show higher impact to be fair) but doesn't take into account:

Higher unemployment through competition
Deteriorating government services through taking care of immigrants

fred_red_beans

Perhaps OP is only looking to answer the question of illegal immigration and it's financial impacts, but I have to consider the context of the question. Is it a drain or a benefit? Hard to tell really, as it's illegal and off the books. However, we do know that it in no way compares with a 716 Billion dollar US "defense" budget.

For instance, Venezuela is a country of people with a democratically elected leader who want to stay in their own country, yet the US government is pushing for their own agenda. To say that we need to block immigration to the US because of the financial impact yet also say that we should use the US military, which has a far higher economic impact, to "help" the people of Venezuela is hypocritical in the least.

Also, should a community, nation, region, tribe, what have you - have the right to sovereignty and the right to refuse individuals in order to preserve their own culture and values?

I am personally not too concerned about illegal immigration and it's effects upon my livelyhood, I am however concerned about the US and NATO bases plastered across the world and their foriegn wars and interventions causing mass immigration.

These are my thoughts, hopefully not too off-topic.

wendolynne

Here in Iowa, back in the 1970's, meat packing was unionized, and a meat packer could make a good living, support a family, save for retirement. http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/250/meat-packing.html Field work like detassling corn was a quick way to make some money. Now these are low-wage jobs, and every so often ICE will come, arrest and deport a bunch of people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postville_raid But meat prices are lower, so there is that. Small family farmers are no longer the norm. The economics are quite different. You ask "Do illegal immigrants help the US financially?" but I don't see a monolithic "the US", I see a many-faceted economy and culture. Corporate interests are served by the low-wage workers that are easily cheated and manipulated with threats of deportation, and this erodes a certain level of decency in society. When I approached a lawmaker about wage theft - workers not being paid https://www.wagetheft.org/faq - he seemed to think that only citizens deserved the protection of government. Your question seems to suggest that our neighbors are not deserving of public services. Shame on us if we fail to be compassionate!

Flesh

Some are, some aren't.

Immigration makes unskilled wages lower and skilled wages higher: https://www.nber.org/papers/w12497

Overall, it probably makes the economy grow: https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23550/the-economic-and-fiscal-consequences-of-immigration

JasonCarswell

I don't understand why the date is 3 days away. Who is debating who? Is this based on a Reddit thing?

This dilemma may be worthy of a political debate:

"/s/TheHolocaust: Facts about the Holocaust" is another new sub, created just before this one. It looks like it's promoting the official story.

Is it worth starting another /s/TheHolocaust_Skepticism (has been in my que, now in my top 15 or 20) or should we post the arguments in their sub? I don't want to shit on their parade but I also won't be silent and raise questions. Separating the two concepts has pros and cons, as does politely confronting them.

Either they will repeat propaganda, have refined arguments to help me learn more nuanced things and require more refined answers, or maybe even I'll change or question some things, or maybe I/we will change their ideas - or both.

For future posts, maybe you want to have a "2019-04-19 Debate" post as well as a "2019-04-19 Commentary" post for random stuff like this comment or other semi-related commentary and free speech outside of the debate wrestling-ring. Just a thought.

I hope this comment is worthy of consideration. Because it's out of place and I don't want to rain on this sub or your post, feel free to save it, delete it, hide it, ignore it, whatever.

SecretlyHistoric

[deleted]

PoliticalDebate

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