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[–]Spotted_Lady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Transsexual women have needs closer to regular women, transgenders, not so much. That is why transsexual folks take great pains to try to hide their condition, to give others the luxury of not knowing and being treated the same. Most who call themselves transgender never get the surgery and are all "out and proud."

I don't see any of what I said as irrelevant though. We shouldn't let the men who claim to be transgender do the same things to MtF transsexual women that they do other women. A person who fully conforms to (or at least is fully committed to trying) a natal female in personality, needs, thought strategies, etc., and feels their body is an error, they are not the same as men in drag lying and pretending to be women for sexually-motivated, delusional, trivial, or criminal reasons.

If we don't want what some may consider "live penis monsters" in with natal women, and that is a noble goal, then I don't see why we should subject TS women who attempt to fit into mainstream living, who are not activists, who don't necessarily support LGBT in with that crap either.

And don't bother trying to research differences on these, since many use them interchangeably, and there seems to be a campaign to destroy TS influences in favor of TG ones.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

[–]Node 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

A person who fully conforms to (or at least is fully committed to trying) a natal female in personality, needs, thought strategies, etc., and feels their body is an error,

They're not female, and if caught pretending to be female out in society, should be permanently stopped.

[–]Spotted_Lady 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I never said they were. There is a huge difference from those who innocently know from age 4 that they were trapped in the wrong body, and those who lie about knowing from this early on.

My point is since TS women have personalities, natures, etc., of other women, they are harmed just as much by male-born transgenders who lie to the world every time they dress up and appropriate women of all sorts (cis and MtF TS).

I knew a preop, non-transitioned TS woman who was living in male mode and allowed the wife to batter them for so long. Had they had a male nature, they would have never put up with that, despite what they were born with. So a male-to-female who hadn't come out was battered, bullied, and gaslighted by a female partner. If they had a male nature, they likely would have been the batterer or at least left much sooner. Many women may hate men, but what they hate more than that is a "weak" man.

Anyway, I think we talked this to the end. Thank you for chatting with me. Enjoy your Thanksgiving.

[–]FlippyKing[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

There is a huge difference from those who innocently know from age 4 that they were trapped in the wrong body, and those who lie about knowing from this early on.

Is there? How can I measure this huge difference? Is it one huge difference, or huge differences? Are they really just presumed differences, or supposed differences, or claimed differences?

I will address what I think is the main point of your essays, or what they are missing might be a better way to describe it, in a reply to a different comment.

[–]Spotted_Lady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Fair questions. It is hard to measure in a quantitative sense. It is more like what the Supreme Court justice said about pornography. "I can't tell you what pornography is, but I know what it is when I see it."

There is no genetic test for this since it has more to do with how the brain has formed while in the womb. It is something you'd have to observe in a child that is young and see their patterns over a lifetime. Watch how they manage conflict, what types of play they prefer, whether they are more into skill-based games or relationship-based games, see if they make better nurturers or providers, and natural mannerisms and affect, etc.

As for TGs, generally, that would emerge more in adolescence when sexuality emerges (reemerges if you buy into Freud). Transsexualism tends to emerge more during or before the "latency" stage of childhood development.

We have to distinguish between innate stuff and more cultural stuff. TS and TG have differing philosophies here. TSs know that their nature and "core" is the "other" already. So they'd want to fix the body to match who they already are, and tend to let the cultural side fall into place naturally. TGs don't always see their identity as being at odds with their bodies and might never change that ("I can still be a woman with a penis since man and woman are arbitrary social constructs"), and they put their focus on presentation only. The activism styles and needs are different. TSs need full conformity to the other sex and see any issues in being accepted as more their own personal fault or that of their body. TGs tend to operate more as a community to themselves, don't really care about conforming ("just be yourself"), and see issues in being accepted as being society's fault. One tries to change themselves and the other tries to change everyone else.

And the above is just a rule of thumb. It's more a collection of profiles, and they must be taken with a grain of salt. The issue I see a lot in some is what I call the "potato problem." Everyone knows what an ideal potato looks like, and everyone knows what a completely rotten potato looks like. But it is harder to judge what is between. How many green spots are acceptable? What is an excessive number of "eyes?" Are tool marks allowed (like gouges from a shovel or pitchfork)? What about mild "blisters," bruises, or scrapes? So it is more of a subjective, intuitive art form than an exact science. I can usually tell the 2 apart, and others have said the same to me. I've run into transsexual folks (even those who reverted for whatever reason) who I could just feel the "girliness" oozing off of them, and I've had to refrain from wanting to stroke their hair. And then there were some that I could just read them right away, and while some of that pertains to their skill, I also notice the pattern of their voices (regardless of pitch), their demeanor, how they negotiate space (eg., "manspreading"), the topics they discuss ("I just got a new car," vs., "How is Emily, I haven't seen her, is she okay?"), the energy they give off (like defensive, belligerent, angry, territorial, detached), etc.

[–]FlippyKing[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So five paragraphs of you saying "I got nothing". Great. Oh, and you start with an appeal to authority. There are ways to make a clear definition of pornography, but that is a topic for the field of Aesthetics not Gender Critical Guys

[–]Spotted_Lady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm not here to debate or persuade, merely share. So maybe I am in the wrong place, as I think I just described a more feminine strategy, and "guys" is in the sub's name. LOL.

[–]FlippyKing[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm pointing out that you're sharing an appeal to authority. I think your lol is at your own ignorance because while this is a "guys" sub, I pointed out that the question of defining porn is not just doable but a topic of the field of aesthetics. But where are you describing a more feminine strategy? What even is a more feminine strategy? Are strategies now gendered or sexed?

[–]Spotted_Lady 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Again, no such "appeal" is intended as my comment was an example to show that the TG vs. TS thing is rather subjective, like the "potato sorting problem."

Once again, I am not here to debate. If you are, fine, I'm happy for you. And by "just describe" I referred to the previous sentence of not being here to debate or persuade to end our conversation.

Please have a good day. My role in this conversation with you is over.