Qt/tra, how does identity form?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Third spaces or women’s spaces are the only way that we can be safe. And we can’t engineer third spaces. That change can’t come from us.

Why can't that change come from you? What's preventing you and other TW from being agents of change and advocates on your own behalf? Women for generations had to fight for our rights and our spaces, and we had to build many of the the facilities TW and other males want in on now like rape refuges and DV shelters from the ground up with our own money, time and labor that we donated. Black people had to organize, campaign and demonstrate for their rights. So did people with all sorts of disabilities. Gay men during the AIDS crisis had to create organizations to provide for their health care and to lobby for the protections they needed.

What's wrong with you and other TW that other people have to do all the campaigning and hard work for you? Why is your group so exceptional and special and highfalutin that others must do the hard work for you and hand you the gains you seek on a proverbial silver platter already signed, sealed and delivered and tied in a fancy bow?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Numbers, resources, public opinion, the fact that any such movement would be used to further marginalize us as evidence we aren’t really women. Take your pick.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

How exactly do you expect anyone to be able to advocate for third spaces for trans people if you can’t accept that you aren’t really women?

What basis would we have to advocate for those spaces? You can’t have it both ways. You can’t push the idea that you’re a woman and then pretend you’d be content with third spaces for trans people. Those third spaces would come specifically because you aren’t women. What argument is there to make in favor of third spaces if TWAW?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It’s still coming from you. You demand us out of women’s spaces. We can’t be in men’s spaces. So you want third spaces to get us away from you without undue harm. How isn’t that a platform to take?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What does this have to do with what I asked you here? I asked how anyone is supposed to advocate for third spaces for trans people if TWAW. Are you going to answer that?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I gave you a path that doesn’t depend on trans women not being women right there.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What reason would we have to explain wanting to get away from tw other than them not being women?

That’s exactly why we want to get away from… that’s the whole point of this thread… what????