Qt/tra, how does identity form?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

That doesn’t sound anything like how any one else forms a sense of identity. It’s entirely the opposite.

Women aren’t a group because of the stereotypes associated with us.

The stereotypes are associated with us because we are women.

That’s how that works. So there is no group to identify with. The group only exists because we all share the same sex. Sex is the group. There’s no identity in sex. There can be sub groups, race, economic class, sexuality etc. Other than that, we can’t take for granted we have anything connecting us (even within a sub group, I can’t take for granted I have anything in common with another bisexual woman other than us both being bisexual women).

My point being- the group You identify with wouldn’t be "women" or "females", it would be people who -insert whatever thing(s) you liked or were drawn to that made you believe you identified with all women-. That’s not sex or gender specific. That’s interest/likes/whatever specific.

And realizing that you’ve based your sense of identity on stereotypes could very well be a reason to change how you see yourself to many people. Personally, if I believed I identified as something and then realized it was actually based on the perpetuation of stereotypes about a group of people (females in this case) that Im not a part of, I’d stop saying I identify as a female and start saying I personally gravitate towards things associated with women.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

You can’t just decide to change the basis of your personality and identity that is that deeply set.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Actually, hold on-

Is this even true? Don’t some racist people stop being racist? Don’t some religious people stop believing or convert? aren’t there thousands of other instances where someone can come to change their feelings on something that influenced them their whole life (particularly in formative years)?

Unless you think that gender identity is just so much more of a powerful influence than religion or being raised in a racist environment? If that’s what you think, what is it that makes gender identity so much more significant than other things that contribute to how someone builds their identity and personality?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Is racism a core facet of their identity? Is religion? If it changes I would bet not.

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah! The Not a true Scottman falacy! A true classic!

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Why not? Why is it impossible (despite evidence to the contrary…) for someone who based the core of their identity on racism or a specific religion unable (even tho, again there’s evidence that they can and do all the time and you’re ignoring that for the sake of your argument) can’t change?

So everyone whose racist or extremely religious can’t and doesn’t change? Ever? At all?

My husband’s uncle and I had this whole moment where he apologized to me for his racism and his behavior towards me. He did this because he knew I was pregnant with my first kid and he wanted to be there to see his nephew’s family. He claims to love my son and put years of effort into repairing our relationship and the one he has with my husband.

But nah… I guess he’s just a racist who lied. So he could build a relationship with people he hated. Idk people are weird.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I’m not saying he wasn’t a racist I’m saying if he changed that racism wasn’t a core component of his personality.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If think if you’re a skinhead with Nazi tattoos and memorabilia in your home it’s pretty deeply imbedded but say what you need for your argument lol

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I’m not saying he wasn’t a racist I’m saying if he changed that racism wasn’t a core component of his personality.

It's interesting that you're making these claims so soon after the death of former South African president Frederik Willem de Klerk. You think racism wasn't a core part of de Klerk's personality - and the personality of other Afrikaners of his and previous eras?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I have no idea who that is.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You're discussing racism and "identity" as though these are topics on which you have expertise, but you don't know who de Klerk is? Oy vey. That's really embarrassing. It's incomprehensible to me that anyone who supposedly cares about "diversity and inclusion" doesn't know who de Klerk is. Especially since a principle of gender ideology is that sex segregation is akin to apartheid.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I didn’t bring up racism. I don’t claim to be an authority on it.