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What is a woman(self)

23 points22 points25 points submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex

We all know that to gc and radfems, a woman is an adult human female.

Qt, how do you define woman?

Is it a state of mind? Something something instincts gone awry? An identity? Something else entirely?

With this new definition, how are we to categorise adult human females?

Should adult human females be categorised as a group or should we always use xyz definition as provided by qt?

What are adult human females if not women? (Ie, woman means an identity or a feeling)

all 52 comments

SnowAssMan 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

You may ask "what is a woman?", but their answer will be to describe femininity (without ever saying 'femininity'). As usual however, their actions speak louder than their words:

Anti-androgens, oestrogen, tucking, 30% getting their testicles removed, facial feminisation surgeries, voice feminisation lessons, "birth sex" (implying it can be changed), Preferred sex, the definition of gender dysphoria: a strong dislike of one's sex &/or strong desire to be the opposite sex, what MtF stands for, "transition" – all this evidence & more clearly communicates that they know what a woman is: an adult human female, not male & not a construct, but based in biology.

They believe that tampering with male anatomy in a biological way in order for it to resemble female anatomy is the transition of sex, from male to female. The reasoning I suppose is "feminised males are women because meh, close enough".

Why on Earth they've chosen to be so vague, idk. Maybe it's to be inclusive of men who only feminise their names, preferred pronouns, hair & dress (only the superficial constructs & none of their biology). The only way to include them is to reduce the definition of 'woman' to 'femininity', which they daren't say aloud.

All (non-circular) definitions are "exclusionary", just as sex is, which is why compensating for sex in speech or action, directly or indirectly is considered bigotry.

HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

Agree with you completely.

peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

Obligatory not QT, but trans. So, I’ll start by saying a woman is an adult human female. I feel like this is many trans people think it is too even if don’t want to say so. They feel like it’s a fiction that helps them or other feel better so they will support it even if they don’t really believe it. A transwoman might feel like they are a woman inside or want to be one, but, for the most part, that can really only be about sex stereotypes. I guess a male person could really, really feel like we’re meant to become pregnant and give birth for instance and that could be something that wasn’t a stereotype only female can give birth. I don’t think that is the usually what people refer to when they say they have a gender identity though. If it was, they could feel that way, but they still wouldn’t be a women for feeling that way because it’s not how their body is.

If someone passes as a woman or girl (female), then that is how they are treated in society whether they are actually female or not. I feel like this is what being a male transsexual used to be about it doesn’t really need the definition of woman to change. I guess things like being about to change your birth certificate after surgery helped, and I know GC is against that, it still seemed less demanding. The “trans rights” stuff is for people who don’t pass to make it to where they are included in the category anyway. I don’t think it works though because you aren’t treated like a female if you don’t pass. You may be treated super nice and people may use your pronouns, but that’s a different than actually being seen as a woman. I hope this makes sense.

HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

You make sense, and it’s nice to have some insight into what may be going on behind the scenes for some caught up in QT and their own dysmorphia.

[deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

It makes sense in that you have presented the one and only thing I can agree on having in common with transwomen:

If someone passes as a woman or girl (female), then that is how they are treated in society whether they are actually female or not.

Arguments to shared hormones, girlhood, emotions, and most especially PMS offend me, but sure here is something we have in common and can work on. However, it only applies to transwomen who pass, who are still the minority (this might change with the amount of childhood transition but I'm not sure).

Do you think I have anything in common with non-passing transwomen? Just curious.

peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

No, I don’t think so. Like, you might have something in common with an individual non-passing transwoman (or a man for that matter), but nothing about them being a transwoman means that you will or that the groups automatically share something.

GenderbenderShe/her/hers 3 insightful - 11 fun3 insightful - 10 fun4 insightful - 11 fun 2 years ago

Anyone who has a female gender identity.

kwallio 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

What is a female gender identity? What is a female gender? Can you describe what female and gender mean?

HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun 2 years ago

Please define female. Please define gender identity. Please explain what adult human females without gender identities are.

HeimdeklediROAR 3 insightful - 10 fun3 insightful - 9 fun4 insightful - 10 fun 2 years ago

A social construct

By their sex spectrum status

XYZ definition

I mean, they’re not inherently anything.

SnowAssMan 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

Then there is no reason to distinguish between autogynaephiles & regular straight males.

HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 10 fun2 insightful - 9 fun3 insightful - 10 fun 2 years ago

Nor is there a reason to distinguish between cis women and trans women. Which is why a sex spectrum model works best for describing sex, just as a species spectrum model is better at describing evolutionary states over time than imagining species as objectively distinct entities

AlexisK 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

For healthcare, sports and safeguarding it is important to distinguish between women and transwomen, as they are there grouped with their birth sex and not prefered sex.

HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 9 fun2 insightful - 8 fun3 insightful - 9 fun 2 years ago

No it isn’t. Individualized care should be the standard, not assumptions based off of outmoded binary sex models.

SnowAssMan 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

At least you didn't pretend that they are not autogynaephiles, or that autogynaephiles don't exist. You're not as obtuse as GenderBender, it seems.

HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun 2 years ago

No I don’t believe in autogynephilia as it’s usually described, nor do I believe that what is happening solely affects trans women

HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

Social construct is your answer to everything.

What’s not inherently different?

What’s your reasoning for any of this?

HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 9 fun2 insightful - 8 fun3 insightful - 9 fun 2 years ago

Nominalist remember? All categories are social constructs, so yeah it tends to feature heavily in my thought processes

I didn’t say anything was inherently different.

The logical implications of nominalism

HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

Idk why I ever bother.

For your benefit, you are one of very few people that live according to a 14th century philosophy that’s largely abandoned.

Explain yourself properly or just..dont half-engage and act like nominalism is common knowledge and a normal view of the world.

HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 9 fun2 insightful - 8 fun3 insightful - 9 fun 2 years ago

Not really. Post structuralist philosophies advance many of the ideas of nominalism, and nominalism itself is still an extant position in philosophy.

I’m sorry, I just can’t bring myself to commit to the effort of educating you all on nominalism when it will achieve nothing. It just seems like wasted effort

HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun 2 years ago

I mean, kind of rude. I answered your questions honestly.

whoamiwhowhowhowho 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun 2 years ago

All categories are social constructs

I'm new here, so pardon if you've answered this before. Does this view affect how you live life in ways unrelated to gender identity? If I understand correctly, you don't just think "man," "woman," "male," and "female" are social constructs; you would also say the same about "human," "barn," "oxygen," etc. How does this cause you to interact with the world differently from someone who is not a nominalist?

HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun 2 years ago

I like to think that it helps me avoid drawing generalizations about circumstances and to try to remain humble about the limitations of my human viewpoint. It also influences my religious views as I mostly Identify as a buddhist and agree with the teaching that all things are empty of intrinsic existence and nature.

[deleted] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun 2 years ago

A social construct

By their sex spectrum status

XYZ definition

I mean, they’re not inherently anything.

That's cool.

We could have some genuine fun with metaphysics. But given that OP's questions are framed within the context of contemporary material categories, is there anything you can say about them wrt material definitions? Like it or not, Woman is among the Ten Thousand Things.