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[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

the same treatment? Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. But I hardly think that a man bringing fourth the exact same arguments wouldn't have them dismissed as bigotry either.

So, you saw all the evidence of the death and rape threaths sent by many transactivists, but you din't see who were the target of those threaths?

do you know what happens when inclusive language is not used? There was a case where a transgender man that was pregnant and in need of an abortion was denied said abortion, because the law in question spoke of "women who are pregnant", not "people who are pregnant" or "women and other people who are pregnant". The transgender rights movement was argueing for the law in question to be changed to fix this oversight. Gender Critical feminists were fighting against this change, meaning they were literally forcing this man to carry a pregnancy against his will. That is why inclusive language is important, and it is a lot more than mere "hurt genderfeelz".

This is ridiculous. Not all females can (or want to) get pregnant, but only females can regardless of how they identify. Everyones uderstand this, regardless that so many people nowadays like to pretend otherwise. Your hypothetycal scenario could only happen not because of gender critical feminists, but because of people like you that are so keen on ignoring all what we know about human biology.

if transgender women have to compete in the mens division, does that mean that transgender men are having to compete in the womens division - even after having been on hormones fopr year? Because there is a case like that, where a transgender men, that had been on HRT and wanted to compete in a contact sport in the men's category. He was forced into the women's category, because the rules were, that the divisons were based on birth sex. Due to the hightend muscle mass resulting from HRT, the transgender man was signigicantly stronger then his competitor, resulting in his competitor being injured. Then this story was taken by gender critical people and misrepresented in such a way, that readers were left under the impression, that this had been a case of a transgender woman beating up some vastly outmatchend non-transgender woman.

  1. Source?

  2. Doping is not allowed in either category.

and what does changing ones legal gender mean in practice (other than changing what is on the passport - by the way, the personal ID in my country doesn't even list gender or sex)?

Nobody legally changes their gender here. You legally change your sex because that is what is marked in our documents. The word gender may have started to be used in areas outside of grammar, but the word sex is still widely used in Spanish-speaking countries. It's English speakers who started the practice of using the word gender as an euphemism for sex, something transactivists have taken full advantage of.

[–]Taln_Reich 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

This is ridiculous. Not all females can (or want to) get pregnant, but only females can regardless of how they identify. Everyones uderstand this, regardless that so many people nowadays like to pretend otherwise. Your hypothetycal scenario could only happen not because of gender critical feminists, but because of people like you that are so keen on ignoring all what we know about human biology.

The problem is the conflation of social category and biological category. The words "women" and "men" do refer to the social categories, because, well, if they don't, what words do?

Source?

Okay, I remembered it wrong that his competitors were injured, they only forfeited because they feared injury https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/25/transgender-wrestler-mack-beggs-wins-texas-girls-title

Doping is not allowed in either category.

so in what categories are medically transitioning transgender men allowed to compete? Because if they aren't allowed to compete with the men, and aren't allowed to compete with the women, you are litterally forbidding them from competetive sport.

Nobody legally changes their gender here. You legally change your sex because that is what is marked in our documents. The word gender may have started to be used in areas outside of grammar, but the word sex is still widely used in Spanish-speaking countries. It's English speakers who started the practice of using the word gender as an euphemism for sex, something transactivists have taken full advantage of.

You are diverting the issue. There is no actual difference between "legal sex" and "legal gender" - both are what the law considers you to be. btw. in my language the word for "sex" is "Geschlecht", which is also the word used in the relevant law for changing ones legal sex/legal gender. (if someone wants to make a point about differentiating sex and gender identity, the respektive words would be "Geschlecht" and "Geschlechtsidentität").

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The problem is the conflation of social category and biological category. The words "women" and "men" do refer to the social categories, because, well, if they don't, what words do?

The word "woman" and "man" refer to biological categories. The problem lies in the transactivists trying to rewrite history and biology.

so in what categories are medically transitioning transgender men allowed to compete? Because if they aren't allowed to compete with the men, and aren't allowed to compete with the women, you are litterally forbidding them from competetive sport.

Technically, they're the ones limiting themselves by choosing testosterone over sports. I think what peakingatthemoment about trans males applies here too. You need to understand you may have to give up things before "transition".

You are diverting the issue. There is no actual difference between "legal sex" and "legal gender" - both are what the law considers you to be. btw. in my language the word for "sex" is "Geschlecht", which is also the word used in the relevant law for changing ones legal sex/legal gender. (if someone wants to make a point about differentiating sex and gender identity, the respektive words would be "Geschlecht" and "Geschlechtsidentität").

Are you seriusly f***ing lecturing me about my own language?!

BTW, I could swear you said sex and gender are not the same thing. But thank you for finally admiting transactivists are ideed redefining sex because that is exactly what I've been saying all the time.

[–]Taln_Reich 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

The word "woman" and "man" refer to biological categories. The problem lies in the transactivists trying to rewrite history and biology.

Okay. Then I ask again. If "man" and "woman" are solely biological categories, what words do refer to the social categories?

Are you seriusly f***ing lecturing me about my own language?!

no, I was lecturing you about my language.

BTW, I could swear you said sex and gender are not the same thing. But thank you for finally admiting transactivists are ideed redefining sex because that is exactly what I've been saying all the time.

Sex and Gender are not the same thing. "Legal Sex" and "Legal Gender" are, because both refer to the same thing - what your personal ID/Passport state. Which has nothing to do with biology and only with the social categories.

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Okay. Then I ask again. If "man" and "woman" are solely biological categories, what words do refer to the social categories?

There is not such a thing. Trans natal males are still treated as males and trans natal females are still treated as females. That is why everyone listens to whatever a trans natal male say. And that is why everyone ignores trans natal females unless they're pregnant.

no, I was lecturing you about my language.

I was talking about MY language and MY country and you used your language to "show" how I was wrong about what I said.

Sex and Gender are not the same thing. "Legal Sex" and "Legal Gender" are, because both refer to the same thing - what your personal ID/Passport state. Which has nothing to do with biology and only with the social categories.

LOL Congratulations! You've won the gold medal in mental gymnastics!

[–]Taln_Reich 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Okay. Then I ask again. If "man" and "woman" are solely biological categories, what words do refer to the social categories?

There is not such a thing. Trans natal males are still treated as males and trans natal females are still treated as females.

No they aren't (at least when passing, which for most is the goal) and they don't want to.

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

How many trans natal males are ready for doing most of the house chores and most of the child rising? How many are ready to put their needs aside and care for others? How many are ready to act nice? How many are ready to get their appearence scrutinized and criticized? How many are ready to get their opinions dismissed? How many are ready to get their bad experiences disbelieved? Because all of that is part of being treated as a woman.

[–]Taln_Reich 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

How many trans natal males are ready for doing most of the house chores and most of the child rising? How many are ready to put their needs aside and care for others? How many are ready to act nice? How many are ready to get their appearence scrutinized and criticized? How many are ready to get their opinions dismissed? How many are ready to get their bad experiences disbelieved? Because all of that is part of being treated as a woman.

If you think, that transgender women still get all the male privilege, why don't you try claiming to be a passing transgender woman when that male privilege would come in handy for you?

How many are ready to get their appearence scrutinized and criticized?

you think you think transgender women don't get their "their appearence scrutinized and criticized" ? Really? Hahhaha. If anything transgender women are under more scrutiny, due to the pressure to pass.

Edit:

How many are ready to get their opinions dismissed? How many are ready to get their bad experiences disbelieved?

Really? That's how you that works? They tell someone their opinions/their experiences, get dismissed/disbelieved - but once they state "oh, by the way, I'm a tr#nny" everyone suddenly believes them?

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you know transwomen in real life or have you been at companies or in social groups with them? I just don’t know how you can believe these things. I feel like you don’t even have a basic understanding of sexism.