Exposing The Reality of Transgender Science & Trans Activism | Debra Soh | ACADEMIA | Rubin Report

Astrid2448

I talked about this in another post, but as someone who has a lot of experience in healthcare and the sciences (entire family is pretty much involved in it, so I grew up around it as well)... this person seems to have a habit of misrepresenting studies. Much of what they’re saying everybody agrees with them on are actually widely debated and actually have a lot of opposition. For example, most psychologists don’t even endorse IQ as a measurement of intelligence (there’s a lot of debate over whether it’s even accurate) and it’s generally agreed that even if it were one, it is only a measure of one form of intelligence. There are quite a few theories on intelligence and none of them have full backing. These types of issues are present with literally every point they just raised. I’m not sure if they’re just unintentionally being biased or if they’re misrepresenting things. Not to mention that apparently the humanities are for stupid people, but their expertise is in the soft sciences that are adjacent to the humanities. My peers in the hard sciences used to take courses in psychology and anthropology to boost their GPA.

I’m really, really tired of science being weaponized by people in these kinds of debates.

Astrid2448

I haven’t really met any who do either. But I think it’s more like radfems are gender critical but not all gender critical people are radfems? But in my experience most of the time the two are the same.

Astrid2448

Yes you can. A social justice warrior is not the same as someone who just believes in social justice. Check out urban dictionary.

Astrid2448

I’m also not white before someone comes at me as well lol. Though I get sick of having to use this to be able to talk.

Obviously those are the wrong things to do. It’s horseshoe theory in action tbh. That’s a big problem for me when it comes to weaponizing science in these political debates, because no one is stating “sexed brains” plainly, they usually follow it with a worldview that promotes sexism based on misinterpretations or exaggerations of the data to suit their narrative. Just as it would be with race.

The truth is that there are differences. From a purely scientific standpoint, I feel comfortable saying that odds are there are differences in averages between pipulations (same as there are with things like height based on race) because I can separate average data from individual reality. However, the issue like you said is that many people can’t. And I can understand why, because if you’re not regularly in these circles, when you hear data about this you’re going to jump to conclusions or try to relate it to your own life. In that way it feeds bigotry, as frankly has already been seen in this thread with the implication that women aren’t in certain fields, etc. because their brain limits them from it. It Is hard for people to be objective given data without the background to interpret it properly.

Hell, even many people who should know better are plagued by this. In particular, for quite a while the hard sciences have been harassed by psychology and sociology researchers who publish papers reinterpreting biology in whatever image they’d like. Then the woke people cite those articles as evidence when I’d almost call them opinion pieces.

Hence why I would like to see people stop pulling the “BUT SCIENCE AGREES WITH ME!” to try to win political debates in these areas.

Astrid2448

You would think so but this isn’t my experience with radfems or with TRAs. But again, that’s because they’re the far left. I’m sure a normal liberal, centrist or democrat would agree.

Astrid2448

Did the trans women ever try to be this considerate to lesbians?

Astrid2448

As the OP, yes this is what I was getting at.

Radfems are wrong that there is absolutely no difference. But you are also taking it too far in a way that also shows a lack of understanding. Both the idea that there are clear male and female brains and the idea that they are both totally moldeable with no noticeable differences are false. It’s in between: there are some trends that are common to both and upbringing is a factor. Things like hormones are also influential. Discrimination does exist and changes things as well - they aren’t just making up the idea that women have been treated like property throughout most of history, and that many sexist ideas are alive today. The brain is plastic but it isn’t play-doh, essentially. The variation is large and it is not a defining sex characteristic.

You are exaggerating what those researchers are saying, if unintentionally.

Frankly as someone who grew up surrounded by healthcare, I’m really sick of watching science be weaponized by both sides. Not limited to the trans debate

Astrid2448

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but I do think there’s a big difference between what radfems were doing and what most gay people were doing. The vast majority of gay people are not obnoxious twitter activists. Many of us didn’t believe it because we weren’t involved in the community outside of the bare minimum and dating. Lesbians especially tend to partner off and vanish. Gay men come for the parties. Half the reason we were taken over so easily is because after gay marriage was legalized, most gay people felt safer and went on with their lives.

Radfems on the other hand, have been the twitter activists from the start. They act the same because again this is a war within the woke left which has essentially split. A few years ago radfems and TRAs would’ve been in the same circles. It’s a big part of why they hate each other so much - they feel betrayed by each other and feel like they need to stop the other group from lobbying for the changes they want. And they both think they’re doing it for the good of humanity.

Astrid2448

Gender critical is what radfems call themselves a lot of the time. But I think the distinction is that not all gender critical people are radical feminists. A person who doesn’t believe in trans ideology is gender critical but not necessarily radfem I believe. However, the confusion comes with places like s/gendercritical, where the majority of posters are radfems.

Astrid2448

Trans is more consistent but not by much. They often expect to have their cake and eat it too as well

Astrid2448

Both. Some of them outright have a rule against trans women and some remove it quietly.

Astrid2448

That was an isolated incident though. The vast majority of men’s subreddits are not facing any backlash for this. I did an experiment where I posted transbian porn on a few of them and all of them removed the post. A few even got comments from straight men saying “this isn’t lesbian porn, fuck this garbage”

Astrid2448

Time control. It’s OP, trust me. Who can stop you when you can literally just reverse time and prevent them from finishing their plan?

Astrid2448

We are associated with radfems though. It isn’t some misconception, it’s true. Any anti-TQ group you make will be immediately filled with radfems, like you said they consistently fight against it. And radfems did use detrans to further their beliefs. They often stalk other subreddits, both when they agree with them and when they don’t. And the TRAs do the same thing.

I can understand why you feel that we are not being attacked by radfems as they are definitely more open to listening to LGB people in some contexts. However, I stand by saying their willingness to hear you talk is conditional. They listen because you agree with them on trans issues. If you say anything that goes against their ideology, they are not going to listen to you either. And like TRAs, they don’t treat people they disagree with well, because they see themselves as morally superior. Also like TRAs, this applies if you agree with 90% of what they are saying but don’t agree on the 10%, and they seek to control the narrative. On reddit, they were happy to mass downvote gay people on LGBdroptheT if it meant that the radfems could boost themselves to the top of the page. They are also generally less kind to gay men than they are to lesbians.

I agree that the extremism seen in radical feminism is partially due to liberal feminists attacking women’s rights. However, it isn’t the whole story. Most radfems were already hardcore liberal feminists before becoming upset with them over trans rights issues. Had trans rights activists been less extreme, they would just be part of far left feminism as another loud SJW on Twitter. That’s what I’m pointing out.

I appreciate your thoughts and think you stated them well, btw.

Astrid2448

I think she’s genuinely just a dick. But I do get the impression that a lot of people on Twitter especially were eager to tear her down because she’s a rich white “cis” lesbian.

Astrid2448

It’s not the lesbians being mean, it’s the radical feminists being misandrist social justice warriors who are often just as arrogant and authoritarian as TRAs. And yes, if you treat people like trash or act like a moron they’ll be less inclined to support you.

Astrid2448

The old one somewhat did towards the end of its lifespan, because the radical feminists started to be balanced out by centrists, moderate left wingers, Republicans, gay men, and so on that were slowly joining the movement. But imo it ended before things could really get going.

Astrid2448

Many gay men have been turned away from this movement because of radical feminists treating them poorly. I know because I know several of them. This was also a common topic on reddit, gay and bi men who agree but don’t feel comfortable around women who are often frankly misandrists and social justice warriors. The same happens with many straight people and even women in general who arrive to support and then realize that there are still a lot of extremists here. It was part of the reason I made this post

Astrid2448

That’s exactly what they usually are, social justice warriors, and I don’t use that term lightly. Both TRAs and radfems are, but in slightly different ways.

Astrid2448

They are not right wing. They are just called right wing by TRAs because TRAs call everyone who doesn’t agree with them 100% a bad right wing bigot. Radfems do the same thing to TRAs. They are both extremist left wing groups that are fighting for control.

Astrid2448

Couldn’t have said it better man. Appreciate having you around. The only thing I would add is even when it comes to the L, they are only supportive of lesbians who fully agree with them. If you differ from their views in any aspect they will shout you down as well. Just like TRAs.

Astrid2448

LMAO

Astrid2448

See this comment is extremely disingenuous and really pisses me off.

Did anyone here say you have to give money to every homeless person you see? Did ANYONE even for a second tell you to give money to rapists and sexual harassers on the street? Did anyone tell you to pay sexist douchebags that make art that demeans women? Did I even for one millisecond in my entire life say you should give ten dollars to a homeless man that grabs your ass? No. Because in that case, you’re not supporting them because they’re shitty people or even sexual criminals.

That is not even remotely the same as not opening a door for someone BECAUSE THEY’RE A MAN. This is so incredibly missing the point that it seems intentional. Can you seriously not put 2 and 2 together and understand that there is a difference between not supporting someone BECAUSE THEY ARE MALE, excluding men as a rule (from art, from work, from basic human decency), versus because they are a shitty person who happens to be male? Like are you fucking kidding me?

Astrid2448

I don’t think they’re sitting around thinking it. I think they might come close to “peaking” and then find groups like gendercritical, which are often just as stupid but in a different way. Part of the problem is that these people are creating this huge conflict within their leftist circles that is not immediately visible to people outside it, but hurts LGB and even TQ+.
The link is that both radfems and libfems are extremely involved in the LGBT issues to the point of it being like a mini war within both feminism and the extreme left. They are often not even gay themselves but obsessed with the issue.
I am aware of the legal issues and I comment on them. I just think radfems are hurting our case rather than helping it in many cases.

Astrid2448